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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
 Posted - 03/22/2005 : 16:05:32 [Permalink]
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| Religion does tend to limit critical thought when you make not questioning your faith part of your belief system. "God wants us to have faith despite what we see/hear/feel/etc." |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5311 Posts |
Posted - 03/22/2005 : 17:24:41 [Permalink]
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The words 'question' and 'faith' don't seem to ride together too well in the same sentence.
quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal
Religion does tend to limit critical thought when you make not questioning your faith part of your belief system. "God wants us to have faith despite what we see/hear/feel/etc."
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I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9696 Posts |
Posted - 03/22/2005 : 17:57:44 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Gorgo
The words 'question' and 'faith' don't seem to ride together too well in the same sentence.
Don't be too categorical... There are people who manage to combine faith and critical thinking. I haven't met many, but at least a few. Most of them have been wiccan. |
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Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
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| Edited by - Dr. Mabuse on 03/22/2005 17:58:49 |
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astropin
SFN Regular
USA
970 Posts |
Posted - 03/22/2005 : 22:04:26 [Permalink]
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| While what you say is true Mab, I usually find those "critical thinking believers" to really be critical thinking atheist, disguised (for social reasons) as believers. |
I would rather face a cold reality than delude myself with comforting fantasies.
You are free to believe what you want to believe and I am free to ridicule you for it.
Atheism:
The result of an unbiased and rational search for the truth.
Infinitus est numerus stultorum |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5311 Posts |
Posted - 03/23/2005 : 03:09:29 [Permalink]
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Everyone can be a non-critical thinker at times, and a critical thinker at times. Most people "of faith" do not really believe totally in their fairy tales. They go to work and do their laundry, and don't expect god(s) to have much of an effect on their lives, except as "inspiration", which means that they decide to change their own minds about how they look at doing their laundry and going to work.
The rest of us have some beliefs about ourselves and our world that are irrational. The difference, is, I think, that some would like to be rid of their irrational ideas. People "of faith" think their irrational ideas are the solution to problems, not the cause.
quote:
Don't be too categorical... There are people who manage to combine faith and critical thinking. I haven't met many, but at least a few. Most of them have been wiccan.
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I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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| Edited by - Gorgo on 03/23/2005 03:09:59 |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 03/23/2005 : 07:35:04 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal
Religion does tend to limit critical thought when you make not questioning your faith part of your belief system. "God wants us to have faith despite what we see/hear/feel/etc."
Is being mentally lazy the fault of the belief system? Or is it the fault of the believer? |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5311 Posts |
Posted - 03/23/2005 : 07:47:00 [Permalink]
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The phrase, 'mentally lazy' would mean, to me, some kind of ineffective thought process. Can one's thought processes be thought of as different than one's ideas about oneself and one's world (belief system)? If they are different, isn't one a subset of the other?
I'm not sure which is the chicken and which is the egg, but if one is taught (belief system) that believing in things for which there is no good evidence is a sensible thing, then what encouragement is that for being whatever the opposite of mentally lazy is? (sorry, too lazy to make that a shorter sentence) |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 03/23/2005 : 08:09:18 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Gorgo
The phrase, 'mentally lazy' would mean, to me, some kind of ineffective thought process. Can one's thought processes be thought of as different than one's ideas about oneself and one's world (belief system)? If they are different, isn't one a subset of the other?
I'm not sure which is the chicken and which is the egg, but if one is taught (belief system) that believing in things for which there is no good evidence is a sensible thing, then what encouragement is that for being whatever the opposite of mentally lazy is? (sorry, too lazy to make that a shorter sentence)
Mentally lazy in this context means striving to do the least amount of thinking required. Most people are sheep, preferring to be led because it releases them from having to think about the results of their actions. We see this in the military where subordinates are encouraged to follow orders without question. In corporate structures where blind loyalty is encouraged. Schools try to teach uniformly and encourage conformity. It isn't something strictly in the religious sector. While abuses of that may be most striking in that sector, it is an overall symptom of not putting forth the effort to think for themselves.
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Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5311 Posts |
Posted - 03/23/2005 : 08:30:51 [Permalink]
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| No, it is not something that is strictly in the religious sector, but nowhere else is lazy thinking praised than in the religious/"spiritual" sector. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5311 Posts |
Posted - 03/23/2005 : 08:32:23 [Permalink]
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| Well, that's not right either. It is praised in other sectors. Guess that was just a product of my lazy thinking. What I meant to say is that nowhere is it praised more than in the religious sector. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 03/23/2005 : 09:14:16 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Gorgo
Well, that's not right either. It is praised in other sectors. Guess that was just a product of my lazy thinking. What I meant to say is that nowhere is it praised more than in the religious sector.
You are correct. However, it is not universal over all religions. A great majority of those organized religions, especially cults of personality, show this type of praise. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5311 Posts |
Posted - 03/23/2005 : 09:25:43 [Permalink]
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All religions, again, all supernatural religions, for those that don't think "religion" means "belief in the supernatural," teach that coming to irrational conclusions with no reasonable evidence is the highest goal.
If we are talking about organizations that do not teach anything supernatural, then I wouldn't call it a religion, not that I'm attempting to stop anyone else. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9696 Posts |
Posted - 03/23/2005 : 10:07:27 [Permalink]
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How about Buddism?
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5311 Posts |
Posted - 03/23/2005 : 10:51:18 [Permalink]
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I don't think Buddhism is one thing. Certainly, if they believe in supernatural things, then I'm not sure why they would be different.
I'm not an expert on this, but I don't think there's any good reason to think the first Buddha existed, is there? |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
Posted - 03/23/2005 : 10:58:33 [Permalink]
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This question is both a joke and serious...
So if 95% of the population has this disorder, does that not make it the norm and the lack thereof a disorder? |
"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History
"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini |
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