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jjmonroe
New Member
6 Posts |
 Posted - 04/02/2005 : 13:37:03
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This is just something that occurred to me some years ago, and I want to get it off my chest.
When a heroin addict or cocaine addict is found out, they not only face legal difficulties, but they face the terrible stigma of being recognized as druggies, or junkies, or coke-heads.
When a person uses alcohol and gets in trouble (often tragically because of causing a death), they also face legal difficulties. But, it seems as though they don't face the full level of scorn that users of other psychoactive drugs face. How often do you hear the label "juice-head" used?
I think MADD should start a campaign to stop TV "journalists" from using phrases such as "Drugs or alcohol" or "Drugs and alcohol" and start using phrases like "Drugs such as alcohol", or "Drugs, including alcohol". Like most people, I've imbibed. I know from personal experience that alcohol is a psychoactive drug. Why should we pretend that it isn't?
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The legitimate acts of government extent to such acts only as are injurious to others-- Thomas Jefferson |
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2005 : 15:50:51 [Permalink]
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Because alcohol is legal, heroine isn't.
Also, I don't think people should go out of their way to stigmatize anyone suffering from addiction, whatever the drug. You want to encourage that? What are you, a crackhead?
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 04/03/2005 : 21:27:14 [Permalink]
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JJ has a good point. Frankly, I think it is sad DUIs get wrist slaps over and over until they finally kill or maim, then the offenders get a couple of years, at most in jail.
I am a member of MADD. I've seen too many dead teenagers in the ER. But I have a different approach. The acceptance of social drinking isn't likely to change by changing the wording of "drugs and alcohol", so while I agree, I see no benefit unless there is a goal one expects to come of it. Then we'd need to see if calling a spade a spade accomplished the goal. I don't think it would be very effective.
There are some other things that I think might be effective. One thing, of course, is to push for stricter drunk driving laws. Ideally, the sentence would be longer and longer mandatory inpatient treatment stints for alcoholism with each successive infraction. But that option is unlikely to occur anytime soon. So in the mean time I'd like to at least see mandatory alcoholism assessment and treatment recommendations with any alcohol related offense. A large percentage of DUIs are from alcoholic drivers, not social drinkers who had too much one time.
The second thing, which I have approached our high school with but haven't gotten any fires lit yet is to have pictures in the halls of teen drivers/passengers who were killed in auto accidents locally. The goal is to make the teens more aware it could happen to them. When kids' friends are killed, it suddenly becomes 'real'. Before that, they just don't think about it. I'd like a death to become 'real' for more than just a close circle of friends. |
| Edited by - beskeptigal on 04/03/2005 21:27:49 |
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jjmonroe
New Member
6 Posts |
Posted - 04/04/2005 : 18:44:58 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal
JJ has a good point. Frankly, I think it is sad DUIs get wrist slaps over and over until they finally kill or maim, then the offenders get a couple of years, at most in jail.
I am a member of MADD. I've seen too many dead teenagers in the ER. But I have a different approach. The acceptance of social drinking isn't likely to change by changing the wording of "drugs and alcohol", so while I agree, I see no benefit unless there is a goal one expects to come of it. Then we'd need to see if calling a spade a spade accomplished the goal. I don't think it would be very effective.
There are some other things that I think might be effective. One thing, of course, is to push for stricter drunk driving laws. Ideally, the sentence would be longer and longer mandatory inpatient treatment stints for alcoholism with each successive infraction. But that option is unlikely to occur anytime soon. So in the mean time I'd like to at least see mandatory alcoholism assessment and treatment recommendations with any alcohol related offense. A large percentage of DUIs are from alcoholic drivers, not social drinkers who had too much one time.
The second thing, which I have approached our high school with but haven't gotten any fires lit yet is to have pictures in the halls of teen drivers/passengers who were killed in auto accidents locally. The goal is to make the teens more aware it could happen to them. When kids' friends are killed, it suddenly becomes 'real'. Before that, they just don't think about it. I'd like a death to become 'real' for more than just a close circle of friends.
It's the 'slap on the wrist' that bothers me. Juice-heads get to suffer the legal problems, but not the stigma. We let them off too easily. Our national media outlets do a lot to form general public opinion. They shouldn't be pushing the idea that alcohol is in some manner separate from other psychoactive drugs.
Here's another option. Killing someone under the influence should be considered pre-meditated murder. |
The legitimate acts of government extent to such acts only as are injurious to others-- Thomas Jefferson |
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jjmonroe
New Member
6 Posts |
Posted - 04/04/2005 : 18:52:40 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by H. Humbert
Because alcohol is legal, heroine isn't.
Also, I don't think people should go out of their way to stigmatize anyone suffering from addiction, whatever the drug. You want to encourage that? What are you, a crackhead?
quote:
Originally posted by me
When a person uses alcohol and gets in trouble (often tragically because of causing a death), they also face legal difficulties. But, it seems as though they don't face the full level of scorn that users of other psychoactive drugs face. How often do you hear the label "juice-head" used?
Have I understood correctly? They don't face scorn because alcohol is legal? They aren't recognized as people who use a psychoactive drug just because it's legal?
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The legitimate acts of government extent to such acts only as are injurious to others-- Thomas Jefferson |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 04/04/2005 : 19:17:56 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by jjmonroe
Have I understood correctly? They don't face scorn because alcohol is legal? They aren't recognized as people who use a psychoactive drug just because it's legal?
They are recognized as people who used a legal drug, yes. What about that is hard to understand?
Some people use alcohol irresponsibly and cause harm to others. There are laws in place to deal with such offenders. Who is you want to humiliate and lable a "juice head?" Anyone who uses alcohol? Only those addicted to alcohol? Only those who, while not addicted, injured another party while under the influence of alcohol?
No one I know pretends that alcohol isn't a drug. Of course it is. But it is a legal drug, and one that can be used responsibly by adults. If someone does break the law, I really don't think anyone who goes through the already stigmatizing legal process needs to have moralizing pricks hounding them about it as well.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
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Starman
SFN Regular
Sweden
1613 Posts |
Posted - 04/05/2005 : 01:32:17 [Permalink]
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Some drugs are legal, some are not.
Society makes it quite easy to know when you have had to much of an illegal drug.
If you get yourself addicted to an illegal drug don't come crying to me that you face a terrible stigma of being identified as what you are. You are halfway to a Darwin award.
When journalists and others talk about "Drugs and alcohol" I find it perfectly clear that with Drugs they mean illegal drugs or drugs other than alcohol.
I would welcome any campaign to increase accuracy and literacy of journalists, though.
Now I'm going to fill my cup with more of a potent central nervous system stimulant... |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 04/05/2005 : 06:18:27 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Starman
Now I'm going to fill my cup with more of a potent central nervous system stimulant...
Let me guess, one that is as black as sin? |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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jjmonroe
New Member
6 Posts |
Posted - 04/05/2005 : 11:13:52 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by H. Humbert
quote:
Originally posted by jjmonroe
Have I understood correctly? They don't face scorn because alcohol is legal? They aren't recognized as people who use a psychoactive drug just because it's legal?
They are recognized as people who used a legal drug, yes. What about that is hard to understand?
Some people use alcohol irresponsibly and cause harm to others. There are laws in place to deal with such offenders. Who is you want to humiliate and lable a "juice head?" Anyone who uses alcohol? Only those addicted to alcohol? Only those who, while not addicted, injured another party while under the influence of alcohol?
No one I know pretends that alcohol isn't a drug. Of course it is. But it is a legal drug, and one that can be used responsibly by adults. If someone does break the law, I really don't think anyone who goes through the already stigmatizing legal process needs to have moralizing pricks hounding them about it as well.
OK. I see what you mean. It's just that the phrase used by most news journalists: "Drugs or alcohol" as in "Because of peer pressure, many teenagers become involved in the use of drugs or alcohol" leads me to believe that they see some distinction between alcohol and other psychoactive drugs (cocaine? weed?). This is what I had in mind when I mentioned people (like Peter Jennings or Dan Rather, etc.) who pretend that alcohol isn't a drug.
Suppose I suggest to you that your black car would be more appealing if it were painted some pretty color, or red.
I don't want to stigmatize anyone. I'm just saying that users of one particular drug somehow avoid the stigma associated with users of other drugs.
BTW, I hate your avatar. Is that from Fight Club?
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The legitimate acts of government extent to such acts only as are injurious to others-- Thomas Jefferson |
| Edited by - jjmonroe on 04/05/2005 11:28:06 |
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jjmonroe
New Member
6 Posts |
Posted - 04/05/2005 : 11:27:02 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Starman
Some drugs are legal, some are not.
Society makes it quite easy to know when you have had to much of an illegal drug.
If you get yourself addicted to an illegal drug don't come crying to me that you face a terrible stigma of being identified as what you are. You are halfway to a Darwin award.
When journalists and others talk about "Drugs and alcohol" I find it perfectly clear that with Drugs they mean illegal drugs or drugs other than alcohol.
I would welcome any campaign to increase accuracy and literacy of journalists, though.
Now I'm going to fill my cup with more of a potent central nervous system stimulant...
I'll assume that you aren't responding to me, because this is not related to my original post. |
The legitimate acts of government extent to such acts only as are injurious to others-- Thomas Jefferson |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 04/05/2005 : 12:51:51 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by jjmonroe
I don't want to stigmatize anyone. I'm just saying that users of one particular drug somehow avoid the stigma associated with users of other drugs.
Not that enigmatic when you think how far back alcohol has been an integral part of human culture.
quote:
BTW, I hate your avatar. Is that from Fight Club?
Office Space.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
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Starman
SFN Regular
Sweden
1613 Posts |
Posted - 04/06/2005 : 00:31:07 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by jjmonroe
I'll assume that you aren't responding to me, because this is not related to my original post.
Try reading it after your first post and see if you are able to make any connections.
If you then have any questions regarding my post I will be happy to answer.
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 04/06/2005 : 00:53:28 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by jjmonroe
BTW, I hate your avatar. Is that from Fight Club?
I told him the same thing. Now I know the guy is hitting a computer, not a person.
Office Space fan club site
I don't think stigma matters to addicts. Alcoholics account for the largest proportion of people getting DUIs.
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Starman
SFN Regular
Sweden
1613 Posts |
Posted - 04/06/2005 : 01:28:45 [Permalink]
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| Wasn't it a printer or a copying machine? |
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Siberia
SFN Addict
Brazil
2322 Posts |
Posted - 04/06/2005 : 05:20:54 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Starman
Wasn't it a printer or a copying machine?
Yep. |
"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa
"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
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