|
|
|
NubiWan
Skeptic Friend
USA
424 Posts |
 Posted - 10/09/2001 : 11:40:31 [Permalink]
|
quote:
I have watched and read a good number of news sources and i heard one corresponent in Pakistan describe the protestors there as a vocal minority that don't necessarily hold the views of the majority. Should America be charicterized by the likes of Jerry Falwell and gunmen that shoot doctors that work in abortion clinics? Of course not. They are just high profile people that make a stink.
Yes, saw that blurb as well, and hope it is true. If you were "outside" of America, though, and the only voices you heard from her, were Falwell, Robertson, and the like, what would you likely think?
quote:
For the other side of this you might need to look around more because they won't get the same coverage because they are calm, ordinary people that don't make for high ratings.
Mmmm.., point taken.
quote:
Is there some specific individual you need to see come out against terrorism? I have seen so many moslems come out against it that I just don't see where you're coming from.
Don't you? Confess to an ignorance as to who are the "lights" of Islam these days, but surely Osama isn't the only voice in a billion plus followers. My access to the media is limited to "off-the-air" broadcast and the net, so perhaps am missing some noteworthy sources. Still you make my point, where are those other "high profile" voices of Islam, that condem the actions of Osama and his followers? Would think that in the current climate, they would get plenty of coverage should any surface to speak.
quote:
Those that think superstitious actions like waving flags and bombing farmers will solve problems are not unlike the Creationists.
Gorgo, really... Waving the flag as you say, has not a twit to do with superstitions. It is pride of nation, it is to identify ones self with one's country, to remember the price paid for the freedoms we do enjoy by our fallen, and to encourage those of us, who will fight to defend us, that our hearts are with them. You do understand the difference, don't you? Nor did the untimely deaths of the thousands of civilians on 911 "solve problems" either. In any "war," as in this one, declared against us, and conducted against us, innocents will be victims. Prefer those victims to be more of the land of my enemy's, than mine however. Don't know what "farmers" you are referring to, but know those innocent victims of ours, are modest in number, as well as being totally unintentional. Unlike those we have suffered on 911. Can't believe, that you can't see a distinction between them. Huh?
"If we believe absurdities, we shall commit atrocities." -Voltaire |
 |
|
|
Slater
SFN Regular
USA
1668 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2001 : 11:46:41 [Permalink]
|
quote:
You've made my point for me very well, thank you.
No, no..thank YOU.
Let me get this straight now.
Love of the United States (as opposed to love of Iraq) is a superstition and the Taliban are a bunch of innocent farmers.
How does it feel being a caricature?
-------
The brain that was stolen from my laboratory was a criminal brain. Only evil will come from it. |
|
|
|
Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2001 : 11:59:00 [Permalink]
|
Yes, I'd say that you exaggerated and twisted my position. But, I would expect nothing less from you.
Caricature
a.A representation, especially pictorial or literary, in which the subject's distinctive features or
peculiarities are deliberately exaggerated to produce a comic or grotesque effect.
b.The art of creating such representations.
2.A grotesque imitation or misrepresentation: The trial was a caricature of justice.
quote:
Love of the United States is a superstition and the Taliban are a bunch of innocent farmers.
How does it feel being a caricature?
-------
Stop the murder of the Iraqi people.
http://www.endthewar.org |
|
|
|
@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2001 : 12:05:47 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Don't you? Confess to an ignorance as to who are the "lights" of Islam these days, but surely Osama isn't the only voice in a billion plus followers. My access to the media is limited to "off-the-air" broadcast and the net, so perhaps am missing some noteworthy sources. Still you make my point, where are those other "high profile" voices of Islam, that condem the actions of Osama and his followers? Would think that in the current climate, they would get plenty of coverage should any surface to speak.
Like I said, I don't think these guys get much press over here. There is no Pope of Islam and most of the 3rd world religious leaders don't speak english. You'll have to forgive them for not having the time to commute by doney to the nearest TV station to blast the Taliban in a language you wouldn't even understand. How much Egyptian, Morrocan, Saudi etc TV have you been watching? I haven't been following them all that much so I didn't see public poo pooing you seek. You yourself admitted that you have had your news monitoring curtailed. I wish I could give you some links but I haven't been taking notes but I saw many moslim from all over the world come out against this. So I think what you are asking for has already been delivered. You just didn't see/hear/read it.
@tomic
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law! |
|
|
|
Lisa
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2001 : 12:26:23 [Permalink]
|
My husband is working in Qatar right now, so he has sort of an up close and personal view of what's going on over there. He's assured me that the vast majority of the people in the middle east are as shocked and horrified over this situation as we are. Not only that, they're pissed. They've never been too fond of the Taliban to begin with.
As far as what the media reports, what can I say? How many of you know there's an Islamic conference going on right now in Qatar? Which gets more ink/air time:
1) A bunch of statemen sitting around discussing the social/economic/political implications of the Islamic role in terrorism,
or
2) Some toothless hanky-head waving an AK-47 around.
Our media knows exactly how shallow the majority of Americans can be. We've become a sound-bite society. The media is in business to sell newspapers and air time. If you want to become educated on any given issue, you're going to have to work for it.
Lisa
|
|
|
|
Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
|
|
Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2001 : 14:00:17 [Permalink]
|
Well, we can argue all day about what flag-waving is all about and what purpose it serves. It is like trying to wave a magic wand at a problem. Why do you need to show that you're proud to be an American, and how did that help anyone who died on 9/11? Were these people waving the flag in memory of those who've died unnecessarily in the countries that the U.S. has attacked?
Looking at the situation in Afghanistan, the U.S. is attacking a country with little regard to what damage that attack is doing to the population. They've sent two planes of food to an area, and they need to send thousands more pretty quickly or thousands, perhaps millions will die. This is on top of the thousands that are probably dying right now that had nothing to do with the 9/11 attack.
quote:
[quote]
Gorgo, really... Waving the flag as you say, has not a twit to do with superstitions. It is pride of nation, it is to identify ones self with one's country, to remember the price paid for the freedoms we do enjoy by our fallen, and to encourage those of us, who will fight to defend us, that our hearts are with them. You do understand the difference, don't you? Nor did the untimely deaths of the thousands of civilians on 911 "solve problems" either. In any "war," as in this one, declared against us, and conducted against us, innocents will be victims. Prefer those victims to be more of the land of my enemy's, than mine however. Don't know what "farmers" you are referring to, but know those innocent victims of ours, are modest in number, as well as being totally unintentional. Unlike those we have suffered on 911. Can't believe, that you can't see a distinction between them. Huh?
"If we believe absurdities, we shall commit atrocities." -Voltaire
Stop the murder of the Iraqi people.
http://www.endthewar.org |
|
|
|
Tokyodreamer
SFN Regular
USA
1447 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2001 : 16:11:43 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Well, we can argue all day about what flag-waving is all about and what purpose it serves. It is like trying to wave a magic wand at a problem. Why do you need to show that you're proud to be an American, and how did that help anyone who died on 9/11? Were these people waving the flag in memory of those who've died unnecessarily in the countries that the U.S. has attacked?
Looking at the situation in Afghanistan, the U.S. is attacking a country with little regard to what damage that attack is doing to the population. They've sent two planes of food to an area, and they need to send thousands more pretty quickly or thousands, perhaps millions will die. This is on top of the thousands that are probably dying right now that had nothing to do with the 9/11 attack.
This is just unbelievably ridiculous!
(And before you ask me to argue, let me say that I won't bother, as it would obviously be futile. If you are seriously criticizing the general act of flag-waving by the citizens of a country, you are not worth the effort of a discussion. You are a bitter, cynical person.)
------------
And if rain brings winds of change
let it rain on us forever.
I have no doubt from what I've seen
that I have never wanted more.
|
|
|
|
Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2001 : 16:29:13 [Permalink]
|
Actually, it was more of a response to the religious histrionics I've seen displayed since I've come to this forum from people who claim to be reasonable people.
It may be an over-reaction. If you wish to wave the flag and you feel good about it, please do so. Don't expect me to join in, or understand or appreciate the insults of unreasonable people.
quote:
This is just unbelievably ridiculous!
(And before you ask me to argue, let me say that I won't bother, as it would obviously be futile. If you are seriously criticizing the general act of flag-waving by the citizens of a country, you are not worth the effort of a discussion. You are a bitter, cynical person.)
------------
Stop the murder of the Iraqi people.
http://www.endthewar.org |
|
|
|
Garrette
SFN Regular
USA
562 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2001 : 16:34:34 [Permalink]
|
Well, NubiWan said first and better what I would have said about flag-waving. Still, Gorgo, I have to hop in...
quote:
Well, we can argue all day about what flag-waving is all about and what purpose it serves. It is like trying to wave a magic wand at a problem. Why do you need to show that you're proud to be an American, and how did that help anyone who died on 9/11?
Oh, come come. I suppose you've never been to a funeral (or wake, or any kind of memorial for the deceased). I assume you've never sent flowers or cards. I assume you've never consoled the bereaved. I assume you've never attended the funeral of a little-known relative and enjoyed the company of other still living but little-known relatives for just a day or two.
I assume all this because it serves no purpose and solves no problems. It is, after all, superstitious, yes?
The flag-waving is a form of community participation. Analyze the emotions and beliefs behind it all you want, but it is simply community, and I can find little fault with that.
The hardest thing I ever did in the military, and among the hardest things I have done period, was to be the presenter of the flag at a grave-side service for a WWII veteran. Maybe you've seen a bastardized version of the ceremony on film: the flag detail slowly folds the flag that had draped the coffin and gives it to the presenter (me) who then slow-marches to the widow, presents her the flag, executes a slow salute, says "In appreciation of your husband's faithful and honorable service, I present this flag on behalf of a grateful nation," slowly orders arms, slowly about-faces, and slow-marches away. Do that when the widow stares deep into your eyes and listens to every word you say as if it is the most important thing she will ever hear. And do it without crying because you're not allowed to.
quote:
Were these people waving the flag in memory of those who've died unnecessarily in the countries that the U.S. has attacked?
Nope. You're welcome to, if you like.
quote:
Looking at the situation in Afghanistan, the U.S. is attacking a country with little regard to what damage that attack is doing to the population. They've sent two planes of food to an area, and they need to send thousands more pretty quickly or thousands, perhaps millions will die. This is on top of the thousands that are probably dying right now that had nothing to do with the 9/11 attack.
Perhaps I'll apologize to you later, Gorgo, but for now I'm cutting loose:
What absolute, unmitigated, self-serving, willfully ignorant bullshit, made all the worse because you don't have the excuse of stupidity. You are a smart man with the demonstrated ability to think critically, and yet you choose to create a false demon of my country, apportion blame to all but those who are at fault, and criticize my countrymen simply because they like their country.
The US is attacking Afghanistan with GREAT regard for what it is doing to the civilian population. The "thousands dying right now that probably had nothing to do with the attacks" do not exist except where the fucking Taliban have created them. Even the 20 dead civilians reported from the first round of attacks turned out to be unfindable and nonexistent.
We do not NEED to drop ANY fucking food because it is not our country and despite your protestations otherwise we did not create their problems. It is true we might have been able to help them avoid their problems, but WE DID NOT CREATE THEM AND WE HAVE NO OBLIGATION TO FIX THEM. Iran is on their border and has oil money; why haven't they sent them food? Kuwait is rolling in dough; the Sultan of Brunei; Osam fucking bin Laden himself has $300 million which in that impoverished nation is enough to build dozens of hospitals and schools and to import amazing amounts of food. Yet he and his ilk choose to spend their money on training terrorists to attack others.
Take off your god damned blinders.
And in response to some other posts of yours:
the belief that all wars are criminal and/or unjust is just plain stupid as a premise.
Are you saying that a belligerent state that responds only to defend itself from a criminal attack is also behaving criminally? If so, then maybe I was wrong and you are an idiot of the type that academic institutions seem to breed so readily.
Your utopia doesn't exist and never will, and this sad fact is not the fault of my nation, and no other country you can name can be said to be bringing it about, but many if not most can be said to be doing less than the US is to alleviate what ills there are.
Get off our backs.
My kids still love me. |
|
|
|
@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2001 : 16:47:39 [Permalink]
|
Garrette is right. I don't think anyone can argue that the US military is bending backwards to make sure or as sure as possible considering the task that the targets are military in nature.
I don't even mind the idea of carpet bombing terrorist camps into oblivion. Only a fool would still be within miles of one at this point and they serve no purpose than to kill the innocent. None of us need that.
Just how many do you think are still in Afghan cities anyway? I think huge amounts of the Afghan urban population, such as it is, are now crowding the borders or are at least as far from possible from the city. About the only reason I could see to be near an Afghan city is if the Taliban blocked the exits and threatened to shoot anyone that tried to leave. Even then I'd think about trying to slip out at night.
@tomic
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law! |
|
|
|
Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2001 : 17:14:00 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Oh, come come. I suppose you've never been to a funeral (or wake, or any kind of memorial for the deceased). I assume you've never sent flowers or cards. I assume you've never consoled the bereaved. I assume you've never attended the funeral of a little-known relative and enjoyed the company of other still living but little-known relatives for just a day or two.
I assume all this because it serves no purpose and solves no problems. It is, after all, superstitious, yes?
I don't get the comparison between funerals, which is helping all of us to celebrate life, with the waving of a military standard. I'll even go to church if I think it will help someone celebrate life, although I avoid it like the plague.
quote:
The flag-waving is a form of community participation. Analyze the emotions and beliefs behind it all you want, but it is simply community, and I can find little fault with that.
It is taking sides in a football game. Cheering on your team at the expense of others.
quote:
The hardest thing I ever did in the military, and among the hardest things I have done period, was to be the presenter of the flag at a grave-side service for a WWII veteran. Maybe you've seen a bastardized version of the ceremony on film: the flag detail slowly folds the flag that had draped the coffin and gives it to the presenter (me) who then slow-marches to the widow, presents her the flag, executes a slow salute, says "In appreciation of your husband's faithful and honorable service, I present this flag on behalf of a grateful nation," slowly orders arms, slowly about-faces, and slow-marches away. Do that when the widow stares deep into your eyes and listens to every word you say as if it is the most important thing she will ever hear. And do it without crying because you're not allowed to.
I'm sure. I have a great deal of respect for those who've served in the military. I also have a great deal of respect for those who refused.
quote:
Perhaps I'll apologize to you later, Gorgo, but for now I'm cutting loose:
What absolute, unmitigated, self-serving, willfully ignorant bullshit, made all the worse because you don't have the excuse of stupidity. You are a smart man with the demonstrated ability to think critically, and yet you choose to create a false demon of my country, apportion blame to all but those who are at fault, and criticize my countrymen simply because they like their country.
You are the only one using the words blame and demons. All that I've said is that if you care about bringing terrorists to justice, you'd better start with Henry Kissinger, Bill Clinton and the Bushes George.
quote:
The US is attacking Afghanistan with GREAT regard for what it is doing to the civilian population.
Yes, and Hiroshima was a military target.
quote:
The "thousands dying right now that probably had nothing to do with the attacks" do not exist except where the fucking Taliban have created them. Even the 20 dead civilians reported from the first round of attacks turned out to be unfindable and nonexistent.
So, someone from the U.S. is counting bodies this time?
quote:
We do not NEED to drop ANY fucking food because it is not our country and despite your protestations otherwise we did not create their problems. It is true we might have been able to help them avoid their problems, but WE DID NOT CREATE THEM AND WE HAVE NO OBLIGATION TO FIX THEM. Iran is on their border and has oil money; why haven't they sent them food? Kuwait is rolling in dough; the Sultan of Brunei; Osam fucking bin Laden himself has $300 million which in that impoverished nation is enough to build dozens of hospitals and schools and to import amazing amounts of food. Yet he and his ilk choose to spend their money on training terrorists to attack others.
The Taliban would not be in power were it not for the United States. Many, if not most of those people would not be refugees if it were not for the United States. Many, if not most of those refugees would not be refugees if it weren't for the bombing.
quote:
Take off your god damned blinders.
And in response to some other posts of yours:
the belief that all wars are criminal and/or unjust is just plain stupid as a premise.
Yes, and prayer heals, and the dead are raised. Superstitious prattle.
quote:
Are you saying that a belligerent state that responds only to defend itself from a criminal attack is also behaving criminally?
quote:
Are you stretching reality to tell me that the U.S. attack on Afghanistan is a state protecting itself? There is no imminent attack. This was a criminal act, the legal response to which is international law, not military attack. Even if the attack on Afghanistan were legal, what kind of sense does it make? Or are you one of those poor people who think that vengeance means that you care about the living?
quote:
If so, then maybe I was wrong and you are an idiot of the type that academic institutions seem to breed so readily.
Your need to call other people idiots tells me more about you than it does about them. I attended about a half year of college.
quote:
|
|
|
|
Garrette
SFN Regular
USA
562 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2001 : 17:16:14 [Permalink]
|
You've got my Irish up, Gorgo, so I'm back at it.
Let me tell you two stories:
The first concerns my older brother, and he does not know that I know this.
I got stopped for speeding by a black cop (legitimately; I was speeding). He looked at my driver's license and asked if I knew Wayne Vessels. "Yes, sir; he's my brother." "Then no ticket for you, boy." "Why not?" "Your brother saved my ass some time back." Here's what the cop told me:
Back when my brother was in high school he was a super-jock; football star; shotput record; weightlifter; etc. (I inherited none of his jock genes). The cop (who wasn't a cop at the time) was in downtown Louisville when a group of six or seven rednecks decided to 'beat the nigger.' The not-yet-cop ran. He happened to run past a rundown gym where one single white boy, kind of big, but not too big, was leaning against the wall. The white boy saw the chase and shouted "What's up?" The rednecks answered "We're gonna kill a nigger!" The white boy shouted back "I'll help!" and joins the chase. Finally, the group catches the black man. The white boy from the gym makes sure he gets to the black man first and this is what he does: He puts one hand on the throat of the black man and leans in close and whispers "When I move, you run like hell back where we came." So the white boy elbow smashes the face of the redneck behind him, and he and the black man run like hell. The rednecks give hot pursuit. As they approach the gym again, the white boy yells for his friends who come out. Now it's six or seven rednecks against four or five weight lifters. The weight lifters kick the shit out of the rednecks. They had a mini-war. It was not criminal nor inhumane. It was, in fact, just. I'm proud of my brother.
The second story involves me and last night. After a VERY long day doing work and Reserves, I went to a hole-in-the-wall bar near my apartment. I've only been a few times, and some regulars know me by sight, but no one knows me by name. This particular bar can be fairly redneck, too, but last night there was one black man there. The black man spoke a bit too loudly and wasn't particularly friendly, but he was bothering no one. Still, one redneck at the end of the bar kept saying things about him. The bartender had just asked me a question and was leaning in to talk to me when I heard a ruckus behind me. Black man and redneck were facing off; actually, the redneck was threatening the black man who was trying to leave. I looked around and saw maybe twenty BIG men who could have stepped in (I'm 5'10", 165 pounds, and thin; I wear glasses, too). NOBODY DOES ANYTHING except for the wife of the bar's owner. The wife is in her sixties and weighs maybe 110 pounds. She starts to move between the two men. The redneck starts swinging. I grab the redneck from behind and immobilize him (hey, I can do that sort of thing, okay?). I walk him outside and he finally asks "who the hell's holding me?" So my answer was, "It's just me. My name's Patrick and right now we've got no fight between us; you go on and we'll keep it that way." So he left. I went back to my drink; the owner's wife bought me a drink. The black man never said a word to me; the bar went back to normal, but one other redneck (I mean, he looked as rednecked as they get) approached me and, get this, asked if I know how to play chess. I said I do and he pulled out a full size chessboard and proceeded to beat me fair and square in the most excellent chess game I've had in years. I may go back tonight to see if he's there again.
My mini-war was just, too. But if I hadn't stepped in, I wouldn't have been wrong. I owe you nothing, Gorgo, and I owe the people of Afghanistan and Iraq nothing. The fact that I support giving needy people support anyway should tell you something.
My kids still love me. |
|
|
|
Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2001 : 17:23:10 [Permalink]
|
quote:
quote:
Oh, come come. I suppose you've never been to a funeral (or wake, or any kind of memorial for the deceased). I assume you've never sent flowers or cards. I assume you've never consoled the bereaved. I assume you've never attended the funeral of a little-known relative and enjoyed the company of other still living but little-known relatives for just a day or two.
I assume all this because it serves no purpose and solves no problems. It is, after all, superstitious, yes?
I don't get the comparison between funerals, which is helping all of us to celebrate life, with the waving of a military standard. I'll even go to church if I think it will help someone celebrate life, although I avoid it like the plague.
quote:
The flag-waving is a form of community participation. Analyze the emotions and beliefs behind it all you want, but it is simply community, and I can find little fault with that.
It is taking sides in a football game. Cheering on your team at the expense of others.
quote:
The hardest thing I ever did in the military, and among the hardest things I have done period, was to be the presenter of the flag at a grave-side service for a WWII veteran. Maybe you've seen a bastardized version of the ceremony on film: the flag detail slowly folds the flag that had draped the coffin and gives it to the presenter (me) who then slow-marches to the widow, presents her the flag, executes a slow salute, says "In appreciation of your husband's faithful and honorable service, I present this flag on behalf of a grateful nation," slowly orders arms, slowly about-faces, and slow-marches away. Do that when the widow stares deep into your eyes and listens to every word you say as if it is the most important thing she will ever hear. And do it without crying because you're not allowed to.
I'm sure. I have a great deal of respect for those who've served in the military. I also have a great deal of respect for those who refused.
quote:
Perhaps I'll apologize to you later, Gorgo, but for now I'm cutting loose:
What absolute, unmitigated, self-serving, willfully ignorant bullshit, made all the worse because you don't have the excuse of stupidity. You are a smart man with the demonstrated ability to think critically, and yet you choose to create a false demon of my country, apportion blame to all but those who are at fault, and criticize my countrymen simply because they like their country.
You are the only one using the words blame and demons. All that I've said is that if you care about bringing terrorists to justice, you'd better start with Henry Kissinger, Bill Clinton and the Bushes George.
quote:
The US is attacking Afghanistan with GREAT regard for what it is doing to the civilian population.
Yes, and Hiroshima was a military target.
quote:
The "thousands dying right now that probably had nothing to do with the attacks" do not exist except where the fucking Taliban have created them. Even the 20 dead civilians reported from the first round of attacks turned out to be unfindable and nonexistent.
So, someone from the U.S. is counting bodies this time?
quote:
We do not NEED to drop ANY fucking food because it is not our country and despite your protestations otherwise we did not create their problems. It is true we might have been able to help them avoid their problems, but WE DID NOT CREATE THEM AND WE HAVE NO OBLIGATION TO FIX THEM. Iran is on their border and has oil money; why haven't they sent them food? Kuwait is rolling in dough; the Sultan of Brunei; Osam fucking bin Laden himself has $300 million which in that impoverished nation is enough to build dozens of hospitals and schools and to import amazing amounts of food. Yet he and his ilk choose to spend their money on training terrorists to attack others.
The Taliban would not be in power were it not for the United States. Many, if not most of those people would not be refugees if it were not for the United States. Many, if not most of those refugees would not be refugees if it weren't for the bombing.
quote:
Take off your god damned blinders.
And in response to some other posts of yours:
the belief that all wars are criminal and/or unjust is just plain stupid as a premise.
Yes, and prayer heals, and the dead are raised. Superstitious prattle.
quote:
Are you saying that a belligerent state that responds only to defend itself from a criminal attack is also behaving criminally?
Are you stretching reality to tell me that the U.S. attack on Afghanistan is a state protecting itself? There is no imminent attack. This was a criminal act, the legal response to which is international law, not military attack. Even if the attack on Afghanistan were legal, what kind of sense does it make? Or are you one of those poor people who think that vengeance means that you care about the living?
quote:
If so, then maybe I was wrong and you are an idiot of the type that academic institutions seem to breed so readily.
Your need to call other people idiots tells me more about you than it does about them. I attended about a half year of college.
[quote]
Your utopia doesn't exist and never will, and this sad fact is not the fault of my nation, and no other country you can name can be said to be bringing it about, but many if not most can be said to be doing less than the |
|
|
|
Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2001 : 17:34:15 [Permalink]
|
quote:
You've got my Irish up, Gorgo, so I'm back at it.
Your Irish is always up, and I had nothing to do with that decision. These are fine stories, sincerely they are, but they have little to do with what we're talking about.
If you're likening the genocide of two million people in Iraq with your brother and you helping a couple of people out, I don't get it.
[/quote]
Stop the murder of the Iraqi people.
http://www.endthewar.org |
|
|
 |
|
|
|
Topic Locked
