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rubysue
Skeptic Friend
USA
199 Posts |
 Posted - 10/11/2001 : 19:48:50 [Permalink]
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quote:
The guest also had some disturbing things to say about trying to win a "war" against terrorism. His point was that even though Israel has such a solid anti-terrorism campaign, some get through. he didn't see it as a war that we could win...ever. No one has been able to stop it so far, why should we? He listed as examples where terrorism hasn't been won: Ireland, Israel, Morroco. Terrorists were fought there for years and while the terrorist acts may have been reduced they were never stopped completely. All a british leader could hope for were "acceptable levels of violence."
He also mentioned how dangerous it is to focus so much on bin Laden when he is but one of many terorists. So what is the US going to do after the bin Laden threat is neutralized?
What a load of hogwash! This is a pile of tripe that can't pass any smell test if you use one small neuron of critical thinking. What this moron is saying is that we can't win the war on terrorism, so why bother to even try? Here's a common thread that I'm beginning to see among all of these addled talking heads and academics who pontificate and postulate and preach and pander to appeasement and advocate a complete avoidance of war at any costs: They are, in a word, cowards.
Here's a little logic test: Let's substitute the word "crime” for terrorism. Now, read what this morally deficient character says:
“The guest also had some disturbing things to say about trying to win a “war” against crime. His point was that even though (fill in a blank) has such a solid anti-crime campaign, some crimes happen. He didn't see it as a war that we could win…ever. No one as been able to stop crime so far, why should we?”
So, the way out of this dilemma is to not do anything! Just let the little terrorists have their way and bad, bad America had better quit bombing those poor little Taliban and Al Qaeda, because that's really a terrorist act (and illegal to boot, according to our resident crank).
Oh non-existent god, give me strength to keep remembering the First Amendment...
rubysue
If your head is wax, don't walk in the sun.
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2001 : 22:36:59 [Permalink]
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quote:
What a load of hogwash! This is a pile of tripe that can't pass any smell test if you use one small neuron of critical thinking. What this moron is saying is that we can't win the war on terrorism, so why bother to even try?
Hey Rubysue, could you do us a favor and calm down. Nowhere was it said that nothing should be done. The simple fact is that no war on terrorism has ever been won. A clever person might want to take that into consideration in order to perhaps come up with a solution that might defeat it. Whatever that solution might be.
Why is that such a problem? You read a lot more into what I posted than was there.
@tomic
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law! |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 10/12/2001 : 04:13:27 [Permalink]
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Thank you for asking for some reason.
If a reasonable country had a leader that said that he was engaged in a battle between good and evil, he would be laughed out of office.
quote:
Hey Rubysue, could you do us a favor and calm down.
Stop the murder of the Iraqi people.
http://www.endthewar.org |
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Trish
SFN Addict
USA
2102 Posts |
Posted - 10/12/2001 : 05:09:23 [Permalink]
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quote:
I don't know what information you think I've sent that's biased, or what information you think you have that isn't biased.
The one piece of info you with which you responded for my request to info on Panama. It was still heavily tilted toward your opinion that anything the US does is by being a product of US policy wrong, criminal, commission of genocide, and plain old evil.
I just wanted some facts on what happened that way I had a jumping off place to find information. Well, I've seen that you consider that which simply states the facts as biased to the US. If it does not wholly agree with your position that document/source is biased to the US. Well, your assumption that everyone who does not believe as you do is irrational and unreasonable and always bowing down before the great god of the government is a little too dogmatic for me. I think that at this point I will consider myself firmly entrenched in the camp that calls you not worth its collective time.
I specifcally like your back pedalling and apologizing to Garrette - while knowing wholly that had it really been my rant - you would not have bothered. I really don't give a shit what you think. I have enjoyed exercising my brain - but without the other party (read this as you Gorgo) willing to accept or attempt to understand any portion of the other side - the entire exercise is futile.
Stay trapped in your own little fantasy - your as bad as arguing with those who see houses in the stones of the moon's regolith.
Marine truism: No one wants to fight - but someone had better know how.
"Say what you will about the sweet miracle of unquestioning faith. I consider the capacity for it terrifying." ~Kurt Vonnegut, Jr. |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 10/12/2001 : 05:25:12 [Permalink]
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I don't think I apologized to Garrette about anything. What did I back pedal on?
I haven't said that everyone who disagrees with me is irrational. I have said that those who act irrationally are acting irrationally. Many people who disagree with me act rationally. I think it is irrational to believe in gods. Do you think some things are irrational? Does that mean that everyone else is irrational? No.
I don't remember what I gave you about Panama. I remember that I gave you a UN source, but I don't remember the other. What was it that I gave you that you thought was biased, and why?
I haven't treated you any differently than Garrette. I have treated others who make no attempt at understanding a little differently. I have understood that they are making no attempt at understanding.
quote:
quote:
I don't know what information you think I've sent that's biased, or what information you think you have that isn't biased.
The one piece of info you with which you responded for my request to info on Panama. It was still heavily tilted toward your opinion that anything the US does is by being a product of US policy wrong, criminal, commission of genocide, and plain old evil.
I just wanted some facts on what happened that way I had a jumping off place to find information. Well, I've seen that you consider that which simply states the facts as biased to the US. If it does not wholly agree with your position that document/source is biased to the US. Well, your assumption that everyone who does not believe as you do is irrational and unreasonable and always bowing down before the great god of the government is a little too dogmatic for me. I think that at this point I will consider myself firmly entrenched in the camp that calls you not worth its collective time.
I specifcally like your back pedalling and apologizing to Garrette - while knowing wholly that had it really been my rant - you would not have bothered. I really don't give a shit what you think. I have enjoyed exercising my brain - but without the other party (read this as you Gorgo) willing to accept or attempt to understand any portion of the other side - the entire exercise is futile.
Stay trapped in your own little fantasy - your as bad as arguing with those who see houses in the stones of the moon's regolith.
Marine truism: No one wants to fight - but someone had better know how.
"Say what you will about the sweet miracle of unquestioning faith. I consider the capacity for it terrifying." ~Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.
Stop the murder of the Iraqi people.
http://www.endthewar.org |
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rubysue
Skeptic Friend
USA
199 Posts |
Posted - 10/12/2001 : 05:38:34 [Permalink]
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quote:
Hey Rubysue, could you do us a favor and calm down.
Nope, sorry, I'm not sure I can comply when I see stupidity. I deliberately ignored the first part of your post that, once again, jumped on the America the Bad bandwagon, which I am getting bloody sick and tired of hearing. My new hero in all of this madness: Rudy Guiliani, who turned down $10 million from a Saudi prince because it came with a lecture about why the victims are to blame.
By the way, the last time I checked, about the only people who actively post on this board that don't like what I say and how I say it are you and Gorgo. But, I guess the word of the day is "appeasement", so forgive me, Atomic, for bothering you with my emotion and opnion. By the way, you completely ignored my post in the "hey Gorgo" topic where I tried to explain my state of mind and why I feel so strongly about this. I guess being a skeptic means also giving up your humanity; no one told me about that rule.
rubysue
If your head is wax, don't walk in the sun.
Edited by - rubysue on 10/12/2001 05:41:50 |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 10/12/2001 : 05:41:22 [Permalink]
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"Bad" is your term, not mine.
quote:
America the Bad bandwagon
Stop the murder of the Iraqi people.
http://www.endthewar.org
Edited by - Gorgo on 10/12/2001 05:56:11 |
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Tokyodreamer
SFN Regular
USA
1447 Posts |
Posted - 10/12/2001 : 06:16:08 [Permalink]
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quote:
"Bad" is your term, not mine.
See, it's this kind of silliness that makes people think you're a nutjob...
You have done nothing but talk about murder, genocide, corruptness, and hypocrisy of the U.S.
Then you start blathering about how you've never used the word "evil", and how you've never used the word "bad", or "demon", like this is some kind of moral highground for you.
What the hell word would you use to describe your opinion of the U.S.?
You're pulling our collective leg if you say all the nonsense you are talking about isn't implying everything we say you are implying.
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And if rain brings winds of change
let it rain on us forever.
I have no doubt from what I've seen
that I have never wanted more.
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 10/12/2001 : 06:28:25 [Permalink]
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You see, because I don't see the world the way that they do, they think "nutjob."
That is the way that they see the world, based on their beliefs about themselves.
How do I see the U.S.? Doing the best they can with what they know. Same as everyone else.
If you know, and don't act on what you know, then you don't know.
quote:
quote:
"Bad" is your term, not mine.
See, it's this kind of silliness that makes people think you're a nutjob...
You have done nothing but talk about murder, genocide, corruptness, and hypocrisy of the U.S.
Then you start blathering about how you've never used the word "evil", and how you've never used the word "bad", or "demon", like this is some kind of moral highground for you.
What the hell word would you use to describe your opinion of the U.S.?
You're pulling our collective leg if you say all the nonsense you are talking about isn't implying everything we say you are implying.
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And if rain brings winds of change
let it rain on us forever.
I have no doubt from what I've seen
that I have never wanted more.
Stop the murder of the Iraqi people.
http://www.endthewar.org |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 10/12/2001 : 07:10:34 [Permalink]
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quote:
You see, because I don't see the world the way that they do, they think "nutjob."
That is the way that they see the world, based on their beliefs about themselves.
How do I see the U.S.? Doing the best they can with what they know. Same as everyone else.
If you know, and don't act on what you know, then you don't know.
People think "nutjob" because you act like Piper from the BABB. He refuses to listen to anyone elses point of view or even entertain that he might be wrong. As others present reasons for their views, you won't resond to those reasons. Your rhetoric has a definate "The US is bad, evil, and genocidal" bent to it, yet you insist that since you "don't say those words" it somehow isn't what you mean. Quite frankly, I and others don't believe that for one minute. If you hate the government so much, I know of a shack in Colorado that's vacant.
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 10/12/2001 : 07:26:27 [Permalink]
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Again, you're putting shit into what I say that has nothing to do with what I'm saying. I didn't say "bad" "hate" or "evil." These are your terms, and tell me how you see the world. Unless by "evil" you mean destructive, in which case some U.S. policies are more destructive than constructive.
I know very well that I may be wrong. In fact, I hope I am. This is a discussion board, not the friggin' Hall of Super Friggin' Heroes.
Oh, wait a minute. Are you saying that if I'm perceived as an asshole, then maybe I'd better look within and see what is in me that might cause that? Hmmm.... What an original thought.
quote:
quote:
You see, because I don't see the world the way that they do, they think "nutjob."
That is the way that they see the world, based on their beliefs about themselves.
How do I see the U.S.? Doing the best they can with what they know. Same as everyone else.
If you know, and don't act on what you know, then you don't know.
People think "nutjob" because you act like Piper from the BABB. He refuses to listen to anyone elses point of view or even entertain that he might be wrong. As others present reasons for their views, you won't resond to those reasons. Your rhetoric has a definate "The US is bad, evil, and genocidal" bent to it, yet you insist that since you "don't say those words" it somehow isn't what you mean. Quite frankly, I and others don't believe that for one minute. If you hate the government so much, I know of a shack in Colorado that's vacant.
Stop the murder of the Iraqi people.
http://www.endthewar.org |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 10/12/2001 : 08:27:20 [Permalink]
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quote:
Again, you're putting shit into what I say that has nothing to do with what I'm saying. I didn't say "bad" "hate" or "evil." These are your terms, and tell me how you see the world. Unless by "evil" you mean destructive, in which case some U.S. policies are more destructive than constructive.
I know very well that I may be wrong. In fact, I hope I am. This is a discussion board, not the friggin' Hall of Super Friggin' Heroes.
Oh, wait a minute. Are you saying that if I'm perceived as an asshole, then maybe I'd better look within and see what is in me that might cause that? Hmmm.... What an original thought.
quote:
quote:
You see, because I don't see the world the way that they do, they think "nutjob."
That is the way that they see the world, based on their beliefs about themselves.
How do I see the U.S.? Doing the best they can with what they know. Same as everyone else.
If you know, and don't act on what you know, then you don't know.
People think "nutjob" because you act like Piper from the BABB. He refuses to listen to anyone elses point of view or even entertain that he might be wrong. As others present reasons for their views, you won't resond to those reasons. Your rhetoric has a definate "The US is bad, evil, and genocidal" bent to it, yet you insist that since you "don't say those words" it somehow isn't what you mean. Quite frankly, I and others don't believe that for one minute. If you hate the government so much, I know of a shack in Colorado that's vacant.
Stop the murder of the Iraqi people.
http://www.endthewar.org
Thank you for proving my point.
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 10/12/2001 : 08:36:56 [Permalink]
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Proud to be a part of your monologue.
quote:
Thank you for proving my point.
Stop the murder of the Iraqi people.
http://www.endthewar.org |
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Boron10
Religion Moderator
USA
1266 Posts |
Posted - 10/12/2001 : 09:59:02 [Permalink]
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Whoa. This thread has rapidly become a collection of diatribes. Anyone willing to return the conversation to Islam?
-me. |
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 10/12/2001 : 10:44:24 [Permalink]
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That would be nice to see. It wooul also be nice to see people respond to what you are saying rather than fly off the handle and deliberately misrepresent what's being said.
And Rubysue, what's bothering me is how you personally attack people here in an unreasonable, unfair way. You are being a bully.
@tomic
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law! |
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