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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 06/25/2005 : 05:02:01 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
quote:
Originally posted by Valiant Dancer
And this from the same assholes who thought it important to change the name of french fries to freedom fries in the capitol cafeteria.
You're F-ing kidding me, right? They actually suggested that?
Yup. I thought it was pretty funny when some redneck, grease pit here in NC came up with it, but now that it's been adopted by Congress, I wouldn't eat a freedom fry if it were served with the best cut of beef on earth. Idiots.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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pleco
SFN Addict
USA
2998 Posts |
Posted - 06/25/2005 : 06:52:14 [Permalink]
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| And I always wondered why, when the conservatives were so quick to change anything "french", the Statue of Liberty wasn't returned back to Paris? |
by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart. |
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trishran
Skeptic Friend
USA
196 Posts |
Posted - 06/28/2005 : 13:26:09 [Permalink]
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Notice also that they don't define "physical desecration". Its assumed to be burning. What about displaying the flag up-side-down? At sea that means "ship in distress". With protesters it implies "country in distress." What about the flag in advertising or in clothing? How about a red white & blue beach towel? Doesn't bother me but what will the law say if it passes.
I learned in Girl Scouts [many years ago] that the only proper, respectful way to dispose of an old, damaged, or dirty flag [or even one that had touched the ground, if you are fastidious] is to burn it. So, of course they have to use the language "physical desecration" rather than burning. They can't say, "No burning the flag when you're mad," or "when you're protesting," because, if you use an old, damaged or dirty flag, you could claim you're still doing the respectful thing, in some sense.
A second item of flag etiquette was that one should never wear it as clothing or on clothing. Even worwe than clothes and beach towels are the folding chairs made to look like flags. Why no anti-flag-chair amendment? Putting your butt on a flag-chair is ok, but an expression of protest not? In America? |
trish |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 06/28/2005 : 16:19:55 [Permalink]
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Here's what I'm now waiting for: let's say that eventually, some sort of flag-desecration amendment passes. It'll likely be very vague, and say that Congress has the power to enact legislation to carry out the amendment's intent. So Congress passes some almost equally vague law against flag burners, and flag wearers, and flag sitters, etc.
Someone busted under this new law will take the opportunity to claim that the law Congress passed is unconstitutional under the First Amendment. This will work its way up through the courts, until SCOTUS is forced to weigh one Amendment to the Constitution against another.
That is where things will get interesting.
There is tons of precedent in the law already that the First Amendment's freedom of speech is about much more than just talk, it's about nearly every form of expression one can imagine. And the first time a flag Amendment case hits SCOTUS, there will be precisely zero legal precedent that says the First Amendment doesn't apply to national symbols.
If everything works out the correct way - in my opinion only - SCOTUS would strike down the flag desecration law as being uncostitutional from a First Amendment point-of-view, and tell Congress to try again. And Congress would, with much the same results. And again. And again.
And eventually, everyone would see that it's impossible to craft legislation which puts two Constitutional Amendments in direct conflict, and the flag Amendment would just sit there forever after, a glaring black eye on the history of whatever generation eventually puts it there.
Ah, but this is just a dream I have... |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 06/29/2005 : 06:38:46 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
quote:
Originally posted by Valiant Dancer
And this from the same assholes who thought it important to change the name of french fries to freedom fries in the capitol cafeteria.
You're F-ing kidding me, right? They actually suggested that?
No, Doc. They actually passed that. They did it right after France (who was later blamed for selling night vision goggles to the Iraqis, before Russia and Syria) questioned the administration's necessity for war.
http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/03/11/sprj.irq.fries/
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Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 06/29/2005 : 07:18:38 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Valiant Dancer
No, Doc. They actually passed that.
And immediately, the jokes about "freedom kissing" and "freedom ticklers" began. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 06/29/2005 : 09:15:35 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
quote:
Originally posted by Valiant Dancer
No, Doc. They actually passed that.
And immediately, the jokes about "freedom kissing" and "freedom ticklers" began.
And since it's in the midst of Republican land, someone probably suggested the name of a town in Indiana be changed to Freedom Lick. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
| Edited by - Valiant Dancer on 06/29/2005 09:15:53 |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 07/15/2005 : 19:29:54 [Permalink]
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I just had to post this article. Potentially constitutionally relevant, and hilarious to boot!
quote:
MARYVILLE, Tenn. - A teenager was jailed for nine days after being accused of burning an American flag on the Fourth of July, and he faces trial next month.
While the case could test a state statute against flag burning — an act the U.S. Supreme Court says is protected under the First Amendment — prosecutors said Andrew Elisha Staley has yet to argue that he was exercising free speech rights.
"Bottom line is, the kid got drunk," said Lisa Lee, his mother. "He's never been in trouble before."
Staley, 18, is accused of taking the flag from a residence and setting it on fire. His father said the teenager "has no reason for anger against the United States" and could easily have ignited a garbage can instead of a flag.
"He was brought up in church, and he knows right from wrong," Doc Staley said.
Doc Staley said his son has been "floundering around" since dropping out of high school. "This is where the drinking came in. And he's not very good at it," the father said.
The teenager was released from jail Thursday on his own recognizance while he awaits his Aug. 2 trial on charges of desecrating a venerated object, underage drinking, littering, evading arrest, burning personal property and theft.
The Tennessee flag-burning statute makes the crime a misdemeanor, punishable by less than a year in jail and up to $2,500 fine.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 07/16/2005 : 15:25:31 [Permalink]
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"burning personal property" ???
That must be because the property wasn't his own. But shouldn't that be a civil case against him and the flag owner? |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 07/18/2005 : 13:15:48 [Permalink]
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Further thoughts on the nomination: Who would Jesus choose?
quote:
7/18/2005
The Supreme Court: Who Would Jesus Choose?:
At his brief press conference today with Prime Minister Singh of India (for whom it was everything he could do to refrain from showing his Apu imitation), President George W. Bush declared that the Consitution was a-okay with him when it comes to nominating a justice to the Supreme Court. Said Bush, acting as if he paid attention in Civics class, "I, of course, am the person that picks the nominee, and they get to decide whether or not the nominee gets confirmed. That's the way it has worked in the past. That's the way it's going to work in this administration." Which, if you think about it, is about as obvious as saying, "I'm gonna squeeze this here weasel really hard until it stops breathing and its bones break. Then that'll be one dead weasel." 'Cause, see, if it didn't work that way, one would have a super-weasel on one's hands and, well, shit, Bush already has Karl Rove.
This weekend, the new wires were all a-twitter with Bush's Saturday Radio Address That No One Listens To Except A Furiously Masturbating Ken Mehlman, where Bush described his ideal Supreme Court nominee, "My nominee will be a fair-minded individual who represents the mainstream of American law and American values. The nominee will meet the highest standards of intellect, character, and ability, and will pledge to faithfully interpret the Constitution and laws of our country."
Such eloquence; such style; and perhaps such presience. Who indeed, eh?
The nomination looms; we must start practicing now to get our voices in shape. Ok, everyone repeat after me, in harmony, key of whatever your esophegus will handle at high volumn: BORK HIM!!! Or her, or it, or whatever; insert appropriate word.
Easy, yes? Now work on that every day but not so hard that you blow your pipes prematurly. No one wants to be at a vocal demonstration sounding like an Irish tenor after an extended pub-crawl in Febuary, and waking up in a parking lot.
To sum up, Bush has made his usual inane statements, that I doubt he even remembers an hour after he leaves the mic. And his 'base,' the Christian crackpots that represent too many otherwise reasonable Christians, are wanting their pieces of silver. To not at least toss them a bone might keep them home from the polls next year, as they have been known to (ahem) hold a grudge. And they don't want that bone to be named Gonzalas.
They would prefer a bone rather like themselves; white, male, and not yet caught at thievry or pedophilia, like Roy Moore. They might grudgingly settle for Alan Keyes. They can get around that lesbian daughter thing, as he kicked her out of the house at the first convience. He's black of course, but they don't have to look at him all that often. They might even settle for a woman, if she doesn't disagree with ultra-conservative rulings. There are several polluting the national discourse that might be acceptable.
Who would be Jesus' pick? If what I have read is representitive of the gentleman, none of the above.
Interesting times...
Edit: Damn! Posted in the wrong thread! Or maybe not....
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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| Edited by - filthy on 07/18/2005 13:18:28 |
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Trish
SFN Addict
USA
2102 Posts |
Posted - 07/18/2005 : 22:30:46 [Permalink]
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Hey Filthy, since we both took that oath about enemies both forgien and domestic... One wonders how declaring POTUS and Congress domestic enemies would go over.
Wouldn't worry much about it filthy. Not even sure who I'd like to see replace O'Connor right now. Hopefully a rabid moderate. Too bad Congress isn't Dem right now. |
...no one has ever found a 4.5 billion year old stone artifact (at the right geological stratum) with the words "Made by God."
No Sense of Obligation by Matt Young
"Say what you will about the sweet miracle of unquestioning faith. I consider the capacity for it terrifying and vile!"
Mother Night by Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.
They (Women Marines) don't have a nickname, and they don't need one. They get their basic training in a Marine atmosphere, at a Marine Post. They inherit the traditions of the Marines. They are Marines.
LtGen Thomas Holcomb, USMC
Commandant of the Marine Corps, 1943
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 07/18/2005 : 23:57:17 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Trish
Hey Filthy, since we both took that oath about enemies both forgien and domestic... One wonders how declaring POTUS and Congress domestic enemies would go over.
Wouldn't worry much about it filthy. Not even sure who I'd like to see replace O'Connor right now. Hopefully a rabid moderate. Too bad Congress isn't Dem right now.
That very thought has crossed my mind. But I fear that it would go over like a fart in church; a wet one, the kind that makes you want to sneak off and check your skivvies, just in case. My opinion(s) on the matter is vitrolic and well known.
But are the times a'changin'? Bush's ratings are in the tank and the Rove flap hasn't helped. And I've read that Congress' popularity is even lower. Not to mention that the rabid right are happily making asses of themselves at every opportunity; the clown Santorum as an example. Could be, could be... Could be that progressives might finally get their acts together, but I'm not all that optomistic.
Bush knows that he'll piss off the hard core Bible-thumpers if he nominates a moderate. But he further knows that if he puts up the slavering Torquemada that they demand, he'll get into a fight in the Senate that he really doesn't need, nor want.
We'll know soon...
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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