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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
 Posted - 07/10/2005 : 23:28:39 [Permalink]
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Markie, thus far your claims and Dave's claim of fairy poop have exactly the same "truth value." You might have thought fairy poop was just a little joke, or that it was to demonstrate how far out claims can be, but actually it was to provide an example that is exactly as plausible and exactly as evidenced as your claims. Are they both "possible?" Sure, in the broadest sense of the word. But without an iota of evidence, there is no point in "keeping the door open" to either.
With a skeptic, the door is closed but never locked. When you actually have something to offer more substantial than fairy poop, feel free to knock. We'll be happy to take a look at it. Until then, your little ponderings, how ever well thought out or self-consistent they may be, remain firmly in the realm of creative fiction.
quote:
Originally posted by markie
Who knows, if you ever find yourself waking up in a 'resurrection' body some day, you may even come to the place where it is incomprehensible that anyone *wouldn't* feel some sense of obligation to the larger cosmos (and God) for bringing them to where they are.
Yes, if we die and find out you were right, then you will have been right. And if my aunt had balls then she'd be my uncle. That's called wishful thinking, not an argument.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
| Edited by - H. Humbert on 07/10/2005 23:41:16 |
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markie
Skeptic Friend
Canada
356 Posts |
Posted - 07/11/2005 : 06:50:13 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dude: Why do you insist on trying to defend this absurd nonsense? Is there some need in your worldview to marginalize science and scientists?
Again, in my books science and scientists have benefitted mankind more than any other enterprise. I don't understand why you think I am against science. It's my favourite subject, along with religion. Even when it comes to the 'box', I take it as a given that we *need* conceptual frameworks to do science.
quote:
Originally posted by Dude: When you provide evidence of a claim, and that evidence is credible on examination, THEN (and only then) do you get your claims elevated to the status of "possibly true".
Again, what kind of evidence would suffice for you?
Unfortunately, another 1000 years of abiogenesis reseach without creating life or sentient machines wouldn't do it, because you won't be around to see the results. What about a prediction closer to our lifetimes: The big bang theory will be seen to be in *serious* jeopardy within 20 years.
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markie
Skeptic Friend
Canada
356 Posts |
Posted - 07/11/2005 : 07:11:43 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by H. Humbert: Markie, thus far your claims and Dave's claim of fairy poop have exactly the same "truth value." You might have thought fairy poop was just a little joke, or that it was to demonstrate how far out claims can be, but actually it was to provide an example that is exactly as plausible and exactly as evidenced as your claims. Are they both "possible?" Sure, in the broadest sense of the word. But without an iota of evidence, there is no point in "keeping the door open" to either.
H. Humbert, if you feel that the proposition that God exists has the 'exactly' the same 'truth value' as the proposition that fairy poop exists, you have don't have much confidence at all in the majority of mankind, even some of the greatest minds in history, to discern truth.
quote:
Originally posted by H. Humbert: With a skeptic, the door is closed but never locked. When you actually have something to offer more substantial than fairy poop, feel free to knock. We'll be happy to take a look at it. Until then, your little ponderings, how ever well thought out or self-consistent they may be, remain firmly in the realm of creative fiction.
Why not open the doors a crack to let some breezes in? It can get rather stuffy with the doors closed.
PS what is that guy beating on in your picture icon (or whatever it's called)? Is he beating the hell out of superstitions, or pounding on reality to get the truth out, or just beating up a bad guy, or beating up Jesus, or what?
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 07/11/2005 : 07:58:13 [Permalink]
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quote:
H. Humbert, if you feel that the proposition that God exists has the 'exactly' the same 'truth value' as the proposition that fairy poop exists, you have don't have much confidence at all in the majority of mankind, even some of the greatest minds in history, to discern truth.
Argument from Popularity, bro; another logical fallicy.
Never forget that at one time the greatest minds believed in such nonsense as the earth being the center of everything, that maggots generated spontainously from rotting carcasses, that dragons roamed in the uncharted lands, that hoop snakes existed (I have a good story on this last).
Because everybody sez so doesn't make it so.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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pleco
SFN Addict
USA
2998 Posts |
Posted - 07/11/2005 : 08:09:18 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by markie
PS what is that guy beating on in your picture icon (or whatever it's called)? Is he beating the hell out of superstitions, or pounding on reality to get the truth out, or just beating up a bad guy, or beating up Jesus, or what?
Rent the movie "Office Space" and you will reach full enlightenment. |
by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart. |
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pleco
SFN Addict
USA
2998 Posts |
Posted - 07/11/2005 : 08:13:24 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by markie
H. Humbert, if you feel that the proposition that God exists has the 'exactly' the same 'truth value' as the proposition that fairy poop exists, you have don't have much confidence at all in the majority of mankind, even some of the greatest minds in history, to discern truth.
These great minds may have thought differently if they had access to the scientific and cultural knowledge that we have today and that will continue to grow into the future. Perhaps they really did not believe in god, but said so to avoid persecution.
I have no proof, but assume that to be true until otherwise proven.
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by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart. |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 07/11/2005 : 21:19:19 [Permalink]
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quote:
H. Humbert, if you feel that the proposition that God exists has the 'exactly' the same 'truth value' as the proposition that fairy poop exists, you have don't have much confidence at all in the majority of mankind, even some of the greatest minds in history, to discern truth.
I have great confidence in the ability of "great minds" to be just as deluded on topics of religion as the majority of humanity apparently is.
I also have confidene in the ability of "great minds" to pander to the beliefs of others, if they share them or not.
And, I also have confidence in the ability of "great minds" to avoid death by torture, as is STILL the practice in some parts of the world if you don't toe the religious line, and was much more widespread in the not-so-distant history of this planet.
Religion is a powerfull political tool, as the history of the world demonstrates (so does current US politics, for that matter).
quote:
Why not open the doors a crack to let some breezes in? It can get rather stuffy with the doors closed.
See... you still insist on this marginalizing attitude towards skepticism and science. How many times to you have to be told that the "door" IS open, just there are requirements for entrance.... otherwise we'd be wading through hip-deep piles of "fairy poop" all the time, and nothing meaningfull would ever be learned.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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