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AKM
New Member

Canada
31 Posts

Posted - 07/05/2005 :  18:27:50  Show Profile Send AKM a Private Message
For those of you not familiar with Karla Homolka. In 1993, Ontario, Canada, Homolka was senetenced to 12 years in prison. 10 years for manslaughter plus 2 years for the participation of the drugging and rape of her younger sister by then fiancee Paul Bernardo. The manslaughter charge was a deal with the Crown attourney in return for testimony against then husband Paul Bernardo in regard to the rape, torture and murder of Kristen French 15 yrs, and Leslie Mahaffy 14 yrs. Six video tapes depicting these abhorrent and heinous crimes were not handed over by Bernardo's lawyer to the court until 16 months after their discovery. Had those tapes been handed over in a timely fashion, Homolka would have had no leverage whatsoever to make a deal.
In these tapes, Homolka is shown to be a willing participant, and were it not for her plea bargain, she would have surely been convicted of first degree murder as well, based on the evidence presented in those tapes.
Well now she's out as of yesterday, July 4th. Prior to her release, she and her lawyers sought an injunction to stop the press from reporting her whereabouts after release. She is afraid she may suffer reprisals for her crimes from some individuals. They lost the request for injunction, yet the first thing she does is run to a french language TV station to give an interview. While incarcerated, she is reported to have refused therapy in regard to sexual deviance. She is also reported to have struck up a relationship with a convicted murderer while in prison, inluding exchanging undergarments, and some kind of liason in the prison library.

She has conditions that she must abide by, as in:
1-No contact with the family of the victims.
2-No contact with Bernardo
3-She must advise the authorities 96 hours prior to leaving town.
4-No contact with children under the age of 16 yrs.
5-She cannot profit from this.

Personally, at the very least I think she should be facing new charges in regard to a series of rapes perpetrated by Bernardo and Homolka to a Jane Doe around the time of the murders that took place. I also think her "deal" should have been revoked once the tapes were produced, reason being she had knowledge of these tapes and should have mentioned them to council. But she didn't as I think they revealed her true nature in this respect.
If someone should decide to mete out some real justice, I would not lose a second of sleep, not for this monster.
I was also wondering what some of you think would have happened in this case were it to happen in your area? How would this have been handled in other countries, States, etc.?
If you are familiar with the case, what is your take on it, and what are your thoughts?
AFAIC, the Canadian justice system failed miserably, it makes me ashamed and bitterly angry when I think about it, and that it could happen again.
For the long story of this, you can check:

http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial_killers/notorious/bernardo/index_1.html?sect=5

http://www.umanitoba.ca/faculties/law/Courses/McGillivray/Karla_Homolka.html


"Leadership is not magnetic personality—that can just as well be a glib tongue. It is not "making friends and influencing people"—that is flattery. Leadership is lifting a person's vision to higher sights, the raising of a person's performance to a higher standard, the building of a personality beyond its normal limitations." Peter F. Drucker

"If we could sell our experiences for what they cost us, we'd all be millionaires." Abigail Van Buren

Siberia
SFN Addict

Brazil
2322 Posts

Posted - 07/05/2005 :  18:49:05   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Siberia's Homepage  Send Siberia an AOL message  Send Siberia a Yahoo! Message Send Siberia a Private Message
Well.
I can't say it'd be different over here, though there's a high probability she'd end killed in prison.

"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa

"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
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Dude
SFN Die Hard

USA
6891 Posts

Posted - 07/05/2005 :  23:52:17   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Dude a Private Message
quote:
I can't say it'd be different over here, though there's a high probability she'd end killed in prison.


For men in the US, that risk is high as well.

Women are an extremely low percentage of violent crime inmates in the US though. Less likely that you get shived in the kidney if your a female pedophile in jail, I guess.


Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson

"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin

Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend

Sweden
9688 Posts

Posted - 07/06/2005 :  08:18:48   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Dr. Mabuse an ICQ Message Send Dr. Mabuse a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Dude
Less likely that you get shived in the kidney if your a female pedophile in jail, I guess.

That I find very surprising, given a mother's supposed instinct of protecting children. But then perhaps that is a myth.

Another thing about the system that strikes me as illogical, and this is from media experience only: If you're accused for a crime, you'll likely to get a milder sentence if you confess to the crime, compared to if you maintain your innocence.
Is that so in the real world, or just TV and movies?


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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 07/06/2005 :  09:16:07   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by AKM

For those of you not familiar with Karla Homolka. In 1993, Ontario, Canada, Homolka was senetenced to 12 years in prison. 10 years for manslaughter plus 2 years for the participation of the drugging and rape of her younger sister by then fiancee Paul Bernardo. The manslaughter charge was a deal with the Crown attourney in return for testimony against then husband Paul Bernardo in regard to the rape, torture and murder of Kristen French 15 yrs, and Leslie Mahaffy 14 yrs. Six video tapes depicting these abhorrent and heinous crimes were not handed over by Bernardo's lawyer to the court until 16 months after their discovery. Had those tapes been handed over in a timely fashion, Homolka would have had no leverage whatsoever to make a deal.
In these tapes, Homolka is shown to be a willing participant, and were it not for her plea bargain, she would have surely been convicted of first degree murder as well, based on the evidence presented in those tapes.
Well now she's out as of yesterday, July 4th. Prior to her release, she and her lawyers sought an injunction to stop the press from reporting her whereabouts after release. She is afraid she may suffer reprisals for her crimes from some individuals. They lost the request for injunction, yet the first thing she does is run to a french language TV station to give an interview. While incarcerated, she is reported to have refused therapy in regard to sexual deviance. She is also reported to have struck up a relationship with a convicted murderer while in prison, inluding exchanging undergarments, and some kind of liason in the prison library.

She has conditions that she must abide by, as in:
1-No contact with the family of the victims.
2-No contact with Bernardo
3-She must advise the authorities 96 hours prior to leaving town.
4-No contact with children under the age of 16 yrs.
5-She cannot profit from this.

Personally, at the very least I think she should be facing new charges in regard to a series of rapes perpetrated by Bernardo and Homolka to a Jane Doe around the time of the murders that took place. I also think her "deal" should have been revoked once the tapes were produced, reason being she had knowledge of these tapes and should have mentioned them to council. But she didn't as I think they revealed her true nature in this respect.
If someone should decide to mete out some real justice, I would not lose a second of sleep, not for this monster.
I was also wondering what some of you think would have happened in this case were it to happen in your area? How would this have been handled in other countries, States, etc.?
If you are familiar with the case, what is your take on it, and what are your thoughts?
AFAIC, the Canadian justice system failed miserably, it makes me ashamed and bitterly angry when I think about it, and that it could happen again.
For the long story of this, you can check:

http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial_killers/notorious/bernardo/index_1.html?sect=5

http://www.umanitoba.ca/faculties/law/Courses/McGillivray/Karla_Homolka.html



I'm not sure of the legal nit-picking, but I think that sitting on those tapes would have gotten the lawyer disbarred here in the states, if not charged with obstruction of justice. It is certainly a breach of an officer of the court's ethics.

Depending on the state, Homolka might have been able to deal for a life sentence, and Bernardo given death.


"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

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and Crypto-Communist!

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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie

USA
4826 Posts

Posted - 07/06/2005 :  09:37:09   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Valiant Dancer's Homepage Send Valiant Dancer a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse

quote:
Originally posted by Dude
Less likely that you get shived in the kidney if your a female pedophile in jail, I guess.

That I find very surprising, given a mother's supposed instinct of protecting children. But then perhaps that is a myth.

Another thing about the system that strikes me as illogical, and this is from media experience only: If you're accused for a crime, you'll likely to get a milder sentence if you confess to the crime, compared to if you maintain your innocence.
Is that so in the real world, or just TV and movies?





Not really. Female sexual preadators comprise 4% of all sexual preadators in the US. Fewer targets, fewer stabbings.

Pretty much, inmates who reveal or are outed as being in for sexual abuse of a child tend to end up dead.

Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils

Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion
Edited by - Valiant Dancer on 07/06/2005 09:39:54
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26022 Posts

Posted - 07/06/2005 :  12:16:27   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse

Another thing about the system that strikes me as illogical, and this is from media experience only: If you're accused for a crime, you'll likely to get a milder sentence if you confess to the crime, compared to if you maintain your innocence.
Is that so in the real world, or just TV and movies?
It's true (especially of death-penalty cases), and mostly due to the fact that prosecutors would rather have a guaranteed (but short) sentence than gamble on getting a long sentence. A jury trial is risky, and doesn't always go the "right" way. A truly guilty person looking at having a jury possibly hand over a 25-year sentence, with little hope that they'll find him innocent, can instead make a deal with the prosecutors for 10 years (for example) after a full confession.

And, of course, trials are expensive. Cutting a deal early in the process means that both prosecution and defense can save a lot of money.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
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AKM
New Member

Canada
31 Posts

Posted - 07/07/2005 :  22:08:46   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send AKM a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
Another thing about the system that strikes me as illogical, and this is from media experience only: If you're accused for a crime, you'll likely to get a milder sentence if you confess to the crime, compared to if you maintain your innocence.
Is that so in the real world, or just TV and movies?

It's usually an indication that the perpetrator has some amount of remorse. I think they do get somewhat lighter sentences because the courts also look at a confession as a start of possible rehabilitation. Kind of the same as if you admit to having a problem, it's the first step in dealing with it. So I would think a voluntary confession is looked upon in a positive light in that respect.
quote:
Originally posted by filthy
I'm not sure of the legal nit-picking, but I think that sitting on those tapes would have gotten the lawyer disbarred here in the states, if not charged with obstruction of justice. It is certainly a breach of an officer of the court's ethics.

Bernardo's first lawyer was charged with obstruction of justice, although he got off.
"In my opinion, it does not follow that because concealment of incriminating evidence is forbidden, there is a corresponding positive obligation to disclose." - Justice Patrick Gravely.
From: http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2000/06/13/ken_murray000613.html
Go figure, totally absurd AFAIC.
quote:
Originally posted by Dude
Women are an extremely low percentage of violent crime inmates in the US though. Less likely that you get shived in the kidney if your a female pedophile in jail, I guess.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think there usually is a bias in regard to male and female pedophiles, especially if the victim is male with a female adult offender. There are of course examples of adult females being convicted, no doubt. But I think that even in prison, female pedophiles are not looked on as severely as males because of this bias.


"Leadership is not magnetic personality—that can just as well be a glib tongue. It is not "making friends and influencing people"—that is flattery. Leadership is lifting a person's vision to higher sights, the raising of a person's performance to a higher standard, the building of a personality beyond its normal limitations." Peter F. Drucker

"If we could sell our experiences for what they cost us, we'd all be millionaires." Abigail Van Buren
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Siberia
SFN Addict

Brazil
2322 Posts

Posted - 07/08/2005 :  06:11:48   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Siberia's Homepage  Send Siberia an AOL message  Send Siberia a Yahoo! Message Send Siberia a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by AKM

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think there usually is a bias in regard to male and female pedophiles, especially if the victim is male with a female adult offender. There are of course examples of adult females being convicted, no doubt. But I think that even in prison, female pedophiles are not looked on as severely as males because of this bias.


Maybe because to people's minds, it's more likely for a man (for obvious biological reasons) to force a kid into unwilling sex than a woman?

"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa

"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
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Siberia
SFN Addict

Brazil
2322 Posts

Posted - 07/08/2005 :  06:25:54   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Siberia's Homepage  Send Siberia an AOL message  Send Siberia a Yahoo! Message Send Siberia a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Dude

quote:
I can't say it'd be different over here, though there's a high probability she'd end killed in prison.


For men in the US, that risk is high as well.

Women are an extremely low percentage of violent crime inmates in the US though. Less likely that you get shived in the kidney if your a female pedophile in jail, I guess.




Here, there was a recent study showing most women in jail are there due to drug dealing, drug abuse, crimes of passion (i.e., killing your man after he beats the shit out of you, killing your husband after finding out he has an affair), robbery, kidnapping, etc. Not a lot of random acts of violence or pedophilia.

A good number of them steal and traffic drugs/weapons, sometimes using their own bodies as a vessel to transport drugs, to take care of their families due to extreme poverty. Those women can get mean when it comes to aggression against children and parents. Very mean.

There was a case of a rich girl who plotted and followed through with the assassination of her parents. When she got to jail, she had 'MOTHER KILLER' carved across both her arms with a knife, the same day she got in. Police then separated her from the rest to prevent her 'accidental' death.

Feminine prisons are not so bad, though. The masculine ones are where the real violence is. Bernardo would probably be raped and killed in a violent manner in less than two days. They HATE rapists. Especially those who attack young girls. Especially pedophiles. Especially those who kill their victims.

"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa

"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
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