|
|
|
ktesibios
SFN Regular
USA
505 Posts |
 Posted - 07/15/2005 : 08:32:47 [Permalink]
|
Siberia, a little nitpick:
When Stoker has van Helsing refer to Dracula as "that Voivode Dracula", or Drac himself refer to "one of my race who as Voivode crossed the Danube", "Voivode" isn't a name.
The term "voivode" or "voevod" meant a warrior prince, that is, one who ruled by right of conquest rather than inheritance.
Cuneiformist, I hope you do find the time to go through the entire book. Besides being a ripping yarn, there are some interesting subtexts to think about. For example, though Stoker overtly takes a rather conventional Victorian view of women, what do the contrasting characters of Lucy and Mina- and their respective fates- reveal about his inner thoughts about them?
There's an ethnic/political angle as well. Dracula was a southeastern European, not a sort which the Victorian Englishman would have looked on as a genuine equal. Though his wealth, title and force of personality would have gained him the most obsequious service from people like the priggish clerk at Mitchell, Sons & Candy, behind his back he would have been referred to as "that bloody Dago Count".
Drac as the uppity inferior who refuses to act like one, who invades the homes of the dominant caste and targets their women, who respond by abandoning their conventional morality and becoming like him- is that calculated to hit Stoker's audience of middle-class beneficiaries of Empire right in their social and sexual anxieties or what?
There are a lot of ways that you can read this book. And, to enhance your experience, check out the articles at The Dracula Research Center
Share and Enjoy!  |
"The Republican agenda is to turn the United States into a third-world shithole." -P.Z.Myers |
 |
|
|
Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 07/15/2005 : 08:56:13 [Permalink]
|
While this is totally off subject, it really is too bad that no one has made a Dracula movie true to Bram Stokers novel. It is such a great book and yet most of the filmmakers just can't seem to keep themselves from tampering with the story. I had great hope for a really good version when Coppola made the movie and called it “Bram Stoker's Dracula.” Wrong. Along with being horribly cast, (with the exception of Gary Oldman as Dracula and Tom Waits as Renfield), it was not even close. All the Vlad background and Mina Harkers reincarnation of Vlad's wife was all crap, intended to make a historical connection that had nothing to do with the Stoker's novel. At best the movie, like all other Dracula movies, was loosely based on the novel.
Probably the best version was F.W. Munrau's "Nosferatu, A Symphony of Horror". He changed the names because he didn't have Stoker's permission to make the movie…
|
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
|
|
|
Siberia
SFN Addict
Brazil
2322 Posts |
Posted - 07/15/2005 : 11:25:21 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by ktesibios
Siberia, a little nitpick:
When Stoker has van Helsing refer to Dracula as "that Voivode Dracula", or Drac himself refer to "one of my race who as Voivode crossed the Danube", "Voivode" isn't a name.
The term "voivode" or "voevod" meant a warrior prince, that is, one who ruled by right of conquest rather than inheritance.
Cuneiformist, I hope you do find the time to go through the entire book. Besides being a ripping yarn, there are some interesting subtexts to think about. For example, though Stoker overtly takes a rather conventional Victorian view of women, what do the contrasting characters of Lucy and Mina- and their respective fates- reveal about his inner thoughts about them?
There's an ethnic/political angle as well. Dracula was a southeastern European, not a sort which the Victorian Englishman would have looked on as a genuine equal. Though his wealth, title and force of personality would have gained him the most obsequious service from people like the priggish clerk at Mitchell, Sons & Candy, behind his back he would have been referred to as "that bloody Dago Count".
Drac as the uppity inferior who refuses to act like one, who invades the homes of the dominant caste and targets their women, who respond by abandoning their conventional morality and becoming like him- is that calculated to hit Stoker's audience of middle-class beneficiaries of Empire right in their social and sexual anxieties or what?
There are a lot of ways that you can read this book. And, to enhance your experience, check out the articles at The Dracula Research Center
Share and Enjoy!
I stand corrected. In fact, further readings just confirmed that. Thanks, though! |
"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa
"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
|
|
|
|
Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 07/15/2005 : 19:16:58 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by HYBRID
Its awfully quite around here. Its only one of me, and about 20 of you. What is the hold up?
*Ahem* |
|
|
|
Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 07/15/2005 : 20:59:24 [Permalink]
|
HYBRID has given us the kiss-off (even though he came back later). But still...
quote:
Originally posted by HYBRID:
Pride is a motherfucka.
Indeed it is. And you display so much pride by feeling insulted when people question the things you assert to be facts. To take an opposing opinion as a personal affront, when you've said that all of these posts are just opinions on a Web site which is inconsequential, is the height of hypocrisy.
But the worst is this stuff:quote:
The History Channel (On Vlad and Alexander the Great, the reason I said this is because people seem to relate to this. Not to mention these documentaries sometimes have people with letters behind their names, which you require so much. Not saying they are 100% right, but like I said before, if we are going to totally ignore these professionals on my end, who is to say they should be totally reliable on your behalf).
...
And they made no mistakes buddy.You guys will try to break down everything, even if professionals are involved, just because it could prove you wrong.
Unfortunately, the History Channel - so you've said and implied - is owned by one of five media conglomerates which are all potentially working together to filter information for the New World Order and indoctrinate all human beings into a certain method of thinking.
Therefore, per your own assertions and logic, HYBRID, anything the History Channel claims should be "broken down" and examined in detail, through independent sources. That you're antagonistic to such an activity, and even "feel insulted" by it, simply means that you have been indoctrinated.
It's no wonder you're so hostile to skeptical inquiry, since the media can't stand to have their viewers, readers and listeners question their authority, and questioning authority is probably the activity skeptics engage in the most. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
|
|
|
Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 07/16/2005 : 14:57:03 [Permalink]
|
oh MAN, Dave, I'm impressed.
As always you have an uncanny ability to cut through the crap, and distill the juicy stuff until the (rotten) core is exposed.
|
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
|
|
|
Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 07/16/2005 : 17:54:59 [Permalink]
|
It's all in the training, Mab, and not an inherent skill. Once you learn to remember the claims being made (and not just your replies to them), you work from the assumption that those claims - taken together - represent a self-consistent viewpoint. You even grant the claims validity, for the sake of figuring out where the guy is coming from. And as soon as one of those claims contradicts another one, the idea that said viewpoint is self-consistent is destroyed.
We can sit around all day and type "do you have any evidence for that?" over and over, but with the likes of HYBRID, as was amply demonstrated in just a few days, the evidence just doesn't matter. Frankly, I'll wager that if HYBRID comes back, he'll do some hand waving, fully engage his cognitive dissonance, and find a way to claim that he didn't claim anything - and do so with a straight face.
(Of course, it also helps if you go on a business trip for a week, and come home to find 31 pages in three threads all about this one person's wacky ideas - and then you sit down to read them all from page one.) |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
|
|
|
R.Wreck
SFN Regular
USA
1191 Posts |
Posted - 07/17/2005 : 12:20:48 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.:
(Of course, it also helps if you go on a business trip for a week, and come home to find 31 pages in three threads all about this one person's wacky ideas - and then you sit down to read them all from page one.)
I was on vacation last week. I read through the HYBRID threads over the last couple of days, and man is my head sore from banging it on the desk! |
The foundation of morality is to . . . give up pretending to believe that for which there is no evidence, and repeating unintelligible propositions about things beyond the possibliities of knowledge.
T. H. Huxley
The Cattle Prod of Enlightened Compassion
|
|
|
|
HYBRID
BANNED
USA
344 Posts |
Posted - 07/19/2005 : 14:26:44 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
HYBRID has given us the kiss-off (even though he came back later). But still...
quote:
Originally posted by HYBRID:
Pride is a motherfucka.
Indeed it is. And you display so much pride by feeling insulted when people question the things you assert to be facts. To take an opposing opinion as a personal affront, when you've said that all of these posts are just opinions on a Web site which is inconsequential, is the height of hypocrisy.
But the worst is this stuff:quote:
The History Channel (On Vlad and Alexander the Great, the reason I said this is because people seem to relate to this. Not to mention these documentaries sometimes have people with letters behind their names, which you require so much. Not saying they are 100% right, but like I said before, if we are going to totally ignore these professionals on my end, who is to say they should be totally reliable on your behalf).
...
And they made no mistakes buddy.You guys will try to break down everything, even if professionals are involved, just because it could prove you wrong.
Unfortunately, the History Channel - so you've said and implied - is owned by one of five media conglomerates which are all potentially working together to filter information for the New World Order and indoctrinate all human beings into a certain method of thinking.
Therefore, per your own assertions and logic, HYBRID, anything the History Channel claims should be "broken down" and examined in detail, through independent sources. That you're antagonistic to such an activity, and even "feel insulted" by it, simply means that you have been indoctrinated.
It's no wonder you're so hostile to skeptical inquiry, since the media can't stand to have their viewers, readers and listeners question their authority, and questioning authority is probably the activity skeptics engage in the most.
This is just stupid. |
|
|
|
HYBRID
BANNED
USA
344 Posts |
Posted - 07/19/2005 : 14:38:50 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by Siberia
quote:
Originally posted by ktesibios
Siberia, a little nitpick:
When Stoker has van Helsing refer to Dracula as "that Voivode Dracula", or Drac himself refer to "one of my race who as Voivode crossed the Danube", "Voivode" isn't a name.
The term "voivode" or "voevod" meant a warrior prince, that is, one who ruled by right of conquest rather than inheritance.
Cuneiformist, I hope you do find the time to go through the entire book. Besides being a ripping yarn, there are some interesting subtexts to think about. For example, though Stoker overtly takes a rather conventional Victorian view of women, what do the contrasting characters of Lucy and Mina- and their respective fates- reveal about his inner thoughts about them?
There's an ethnic/political angle as well. Dracula was a southeastern European, not a sort which the Victorian Englishman would have looked on as a genuine equal. Though his wealth, title and force of personality would have gained him the most obsequious service from people like the priggish clerk at Mitchell, Sons & Candy, behind his back he would have been referred to as "that bloody Dago Count".
Drac as the uppity inferior who refuses to act like one, who invades the homes of the dominant caste and targets their women, who respond by abandoning their conventional morality and becoming like him- is that calculated to hit Stoker's audience of middle-class beneficiaries of Empire right in their social and sexual anxieties or what?
There are a lot of ways that you can read this book. And, to enhance your experience, check out the articles at The Dracula Research Center
Share and Enjoy!
I stand corrected. In fact, further readings just confirmed that. Thanks, though!
You are totally confused partner. What you posted did not disprove anything anyway.
http://www.royalty.nu/Europe/Balkan/Dracula.html
http://hamsterrepublic.com/html/vladhistory.html
http://www.tabula-rasa.info/DarkAges/VladTheImpaler.html
http://www.donlinke.com/drakula/vlad.htm#Name
We could do this all day! |
|
|
|
Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 07/19/2005 : 15:56:06 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by HYBRID
This is just stupid.
A brilliant riposte, sir!
Too bad that I'm claiming victory in this thread. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
|
|
|
Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 07/19/2005 : 16:10:45 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Too bad that I'm claiming victory in this thread.
Arrgg..... damnit, I was gonna claim victory here!
What was this thread about, anyway? hahaha!
|
Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
|
|
|
|
Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 07/19/2005 : 17:32:29 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by Cuneiformist
quote:
Originally posted by HYBRID
Mystery schools go as far back as civilization. We merely traced it back to around 3200 b.c. or so.Just because you don't know of it, does not make its existence cease.
Woah-- I never said that such things didn't exist! I am just unfamiliar with "mystery schools" and since my own college studies include things like ancient history and such, I was wondering if you could help me out.
Perhaps, since this thread seems to be too quiet for you, you could take a few minutes and explain what these "mystery schools" are! I'd really appreciate it.
I'm just going to bump this in the event that HYBRID forgot about it. It's been awhile, and he did say he was going to get to my questions, so I imagine that it's just buried under too much junk... |
|
|
|
HYBRID
BANNED
USA
344 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2005 : 08:36:45 [Permalink]
|
| I have an interesting question, at what point was this country TRULY free? When the declaration of independance was signed? Did the four fathers really have the best interest of the people? Lets start here. |
| Edited by - HYBRID on 07/20/2005 08:38:54 |
|
|
|
pleco
SFN Addict
USA
2998 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2005 : 09:18:10 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by HYBRID
I have an interesting question, at what point was this country TRULY free? When the declaration of independance was signed? Did the four fathers really have the best interest of the people? Lets start here.
Define "truly free" first please so that we are all on the same page. |
by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart. |
|
|
|
 |
|
|
|
Topic Locked
