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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
 Posted - 09/01/2005 : 16:59:21 [Permalink]
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My professor had a small child. We had a semester with her, 4 hours per week. She didn't go to work about three or four times because her child jumped off a table and hurt himself. The days she did go, she simply got there late because her child had the sniffles, or for some other random reasons always related with her child.
Twenty kids had their education damaged because of this.
You're right. Women who decide to have children should quit their jobs and stay at home.
Sorry to be so sarcastic, but you have hardly given adaquate information by which we can judge this professor's actions fairly. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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| Edited by - marfknox on 09/01/2005 17:02:09 |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 09/01/2005 : 17:15:50 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by marfknox
My professor had a small child. We had a semester with her, 4 hours per week. She didn't go to work about three or four times because her child jumped off a table and hurt himself. The days she did go, she simply got there late because her child had the sniffles, or for some other random reasons always related with her child.
Twenty kids had their education damaged because of this.
You're right. Women who decide to have children should quit their jobs and stay at home.
Sorry to be so sarcastic, but you have hardly given adaquate information by which we can judge this professor's actions fairly.
Let's not be judging the whole barrel here, thank you. |
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Dry_vby
Skeptic Friend
Australia
249 Posts |
Posted - 09/01/2005 : 17:16:47 [Permalink]
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I'm having trouble keeping track of the argument in this thread.
I have a female friend who adamantly refuses to get involved in child birth or even other peoples children for what she freely admits to be "selfish" reasons.
She does not want to alter or share her lifestyle with such a huge burden and responsability.
Now, I see that there are also people being accused of having children for selfish reasons.
Everyone has a different reason for making their choices, but ultimately it is their choice ( I would hope).
It is incumbent on society to assure that any and every child should have the best chance of growing up well adjusted to the society they are born into.
This is the responsability of everyone within that community.
The results of not doing so are far more destructive than any supposed advantage the parents might get from working the system. |
"I'll go along with the charade
Until I can think my way out.
I know it was all a big joke
Whatever it was about."
Bob Dylan
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 09/01/2005 : 17:21:00 [Permalink]
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| What's with all the hostility here against kids? As a nurse I could resent the smokers who took more breaks than I did, or as a mom what about the obvious glass ceiling. So I get more days off and less promotions. You can't take any of these things in isolation. It's short sighted. |
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Siberia
SFN Addict
Brazil
2322 Posts |
Posted - 09/01/2005 : 17:50:18 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by marfknox
My professor had a small child. We had a semester with her, 4 hours per week. She didn't go to work about three or four times because her child jumped off a table and hurt himself. The days she did go, she simply got there late because her child had the sniffles, or for some other random reasons always related with her child.
Twenty kids had their education damaged because of this.
You're right. Women who decide to have children should quit their jobs and stay at home.
Sorry to be so sarcastic, but you have hardly given adaquate information by which we can judge this professor's actions fairly.
No. But they should brace it, rather than use their kids as a child for their incompetency. True, she was already incompetent regardless of the child, but I point her as an exemple that some people will abuse priviledges given to them due to parenting.
I certainly didn't enjoy to wake up 5:40AM to go to class and find the almighty Jane Mom decided not to show up for work, with no previous warning, because she forgot she had to take her kid to the doctor and didn't even have the consideration to warn the students (and the college) she wouldn't go. Not to mention other kids, who work overnight or come from another town for class.
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"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa
"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
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| Edited by - Siberia on 09/01/2005 17:58:45 |
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 09/01/2005 : 22:02:56 [Permalink]
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To Siberia, this woman sounds like a true flake, and I think it was mroe than her employer granting her leniancy as a mom that led to her being a goof-off.
some people will abuse priviledges given to them due to parenting.
There will always be freeloaders who abuse any system of benefits. That's not a reason to abandon the system.
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"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 09/01/2005 : 22:05:07 [Permalink]
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beskeptical wrote: What's with all the hostility here against kids?
That's a good question, actually. Personally I love children and look forward to adopting a couple boogers of my own.
I think the hostile reaction that some child-free people have to children is a normal reaction to social pressures to have children. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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| Edited by - marfknox on 09/01/2005 22:06:06 |
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dv82matt
SFN Regular
760 Posts |
Posted - 09/01/2005 : 23:25:37 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by marfknox
My professor had a small child. We had a semester with her, 4 hours per week. She didn't go to work about three or four times because her child jumped off a table and hurt himself. The days she did go, she simply got there late because her child had the sniffles, or for some other random reasons always related with her child.
Twenty kids had their education damaged because of this.
You're right. Women who decide to have children should quit their jobs and stay at home.
Could you point out where in her post Siberia says that woman who have children should quit their jobs and stay at home? I couldn't find that part.
I don't object to sarcasm as long as it's honest. |
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2005 : 00:10:33 [Permalink]
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I don't object to sarcasm as long as it's honest.
???????
If Siberia had specifically said that, then my comment wouldn't have been sarcastic, I would have just been repeating what she said. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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dv82matt
SFN Regular
760 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2005 : 00:39:44 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by marfknox
I don't object to sarcasm as long as it's honest.
???????
If Siberia had specifically said that, then my comment wouldn't have been sarcastic, I would have just been repeating what she said.
[sigh] I don't really want to get into a whole big thing with you on the definition of sarcasm. But in my opinion it should at least have a kernel of truth to it.
From Wikipedia:quote:
Sarcasm is sneering, jesting, or mocking a person, situation or thing. It is often used in a humorous or ironical manner and is expressed through vocal intonations such as over-emphasizing the actual statement or particular words.
Emphasis mine.
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| Edited by - dv82matt on 09/02/2005 01:19:11 |
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Siberia
SFN Addict
Brazil
2322 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2005 : 08:03:10 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by marfknox
To Siberia, this woman sounds like a true flake, and I think it was mroe than her employer granting her leniancy as a mom that led to her being a goof-off.
some people will abuse priviledges given to them due to parenting.
There will always be freeloaders who abuse any system of benefits. That's not a reason to abandon the system.
She was. It was a waste of perfectly usable 80h - going out earlier, getting in late, when she showed up at all.
My point is, grant priviledges, yes; but not so much as to disrupt the flow of business and harm others - whether it is teaching kids or selling products, doesn't matter. There's a limit to everything. |
"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa
"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2005 : 08:51:36 [Permalink]
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There's a limit to everything.
I agree and I have made it clear that I'm not taking an extreme position on this issue. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2005 : 08:55:30 [Permalink]
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[sigh] I don't really want to get into a whole big thing with you on the definition of sarcasm. But in my opinion it should at least have a kernel of truth to it.
I don't either. I already looked up the dictionary definition and wikipedia definition of sarcasm before I replied to you and found it compatable. Your emphasis in your clip from the definition means nothing because preceeding it are the words "such as".
I think my sarcastic remark had at least a kernal of truth to it.
Your "sigh" and earlier contention that I keep moving the goalposts are slightly rude. Obviously we're seeing things slightly differently. Why assume dishonesty (which you *seem* to be implying about me) when misunderstanding is a much more likely explanation?
We've already agreed on a grey area. I thought this debate was over, but now you attack my way of debating.
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"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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| Edited by - marfknox on 09/02/2005 08:57:04 |
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dv82matt
SFN Regular
760 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2005 : 14:20:21 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by marfknox
[sigh] I don't really want to get into a whole big thing with you on the definition of sarcasm. But in my opinion it should at least have a kernel of truth to it.
I don't either. I already looked up the dictionary definition and wikipedia definition of sarcasm before I replied to you and found it compatable. Your emphasis in your clip from the definition means nothing because preceeding it are the words "such as".
Do you really think that I only read the snippet that I bolded? In context with the rest of the quote it actually does mean something. If you examine it I think that you'll find that it means that one way of being sarcastic is to over-emphasize a person's phrase or words, thus demonstrating at least one way of using what a person actually says as a basis for sarcasm. That was my point.quote:
I think my sarcastic remark had at least a kernal of truth to it.
Perhaps it did. I don't see it though, perhaps you could point it out sans sarcasm.quote:
Your "sigh" and earlier contention that I keep moving the goalposts are slightly rude.
Well the 'sigh' is intended to convey slight exasperation, and I still think that my moving of the goalposts comment was accurate. I realize that I'm being somewhat critical and I hope that you don't take it too personally.quote:
Obviously we're seeing things slightly differently. Why assume dishonesty (which you *seem* to be implying about me) when misunderstanding is a much more likely explanation?
I don't think that you are a dishonest person. I do feel that you made a dishonest comment (and yes, I could be wrong about that). Whether it was by accident or intentional I don't know, I'm not in a position to judge. Either way it's not that big a deal.quote:
We've already agreed on a grey area. I thought this debate was over, but now you attack my way of debating.
Please don't take this badly but I do find your debating method to be a bit frustrating. Specifically I find that a large percentage of the time you missunderstand my point and dissmiss it due to that misunderstanding.
Anyway I do enjoy reading your posts and debating with you. I hope I haven't come across like too much of a jerk. 
edited to fix quoting error. |
| Edited by - dv82matt on 09/02/2005 16:13:05 |
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2005 : 22:11:26 [Permalink]
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Specifically I find that a large percentage of the time you missunderstand my point and dissmiss it due to that misunderstanding.
and
Anyway I do enjoy reading your posts and debating with you. I hope I haven't come across like too much of a jerk.
ditto. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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