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Tokyodreamer
SFN Regular
USA
1447 Posts |
 Posted - 10/15/2001 : 06:52:23
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There's a movie in production called "End of Times", and in an article discussing it, this was said:
quote:
St Malachy famously predicted the name of every pope since the 12th Century reign of Innocent II.
article here
A cursory search turned up the Catholic Encyclopaedia's entry, but it says nothing about Pope John Paul II. It mentions that his writings were kept secret and locked up for 400 years, so any accuracy during that time is immediately suspect as forgery.
Anyone heard of this guy, and know of any sites debunking the claim that he accurately predicted all the Popes' names for the last 1000 years?
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And if rain brings winds of change
let it rain on us forever.
I have no doubt from what I've seen
that I have never wanted more.
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Mespo_man
Skeptic Friend
USA
312 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2001 : 07:13:39 [Permalink]
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Does Malachy's prophesies accurately reflect all the people trying to cram into the Popemobile during the Great Schism of the 14 century? Refer to item 3 in
http://www.truecatholic.org/pope/greatschism.htm#constance
concerning the Council of Constance. If he didn't predict this event, then his prophesies are nothing.
(:raig |
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Trish
SFN Addict
USA
2102 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2001 : 08:29:59 [Permalink]
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quote:
It mentions that his writings were kept secret and locked up for 400 years, so any accuracy during that time is immediately suspect as forgery.
Unless they are using 1000 yo ink there are ways to confirm the age of the paper and the ink. But I feel that it would be much the same argument as for the Shroud - that it is a valuable church relic and can not be damaged by the testing process. Hmmm. Though the pope at Avignon declared the Shroud fake.
"Say what you will about the sweet miracle of unquestioning faith. I consider the capacity for it terrifying." ~Kurt Vonnegut, Jr. |
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Marc_a_b
Skeptic Friend
USA
142 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2001 : 08:51:13 [Permalink]
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I've heard of him. On a trip to Rome he slipped from his donkey and had a vision of the procession of all the popes that would ever be. (yea, he probably just fell off his ass and hit his head) This supposed prophecy I think was actualy published many years after his death. It contains some accurate discriptions of the popes up till the time it was published, no acutal names just discriptions. For the popes after that it tends to be rather.. er.., ok one pope was simply described as being like a shepard, how much more accuracy could you want than that?
So according to that document there will be only two more popes after the current one. So catholics are taking that as a sign of end times.
http://www.skepdic.com/malachy.html
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2001 : 09:19:29 [Permalink]
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How worthless a vision is this?? It would have been more useful to have had a vision of something more useful than just Pope names.
@tomic
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law! |
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Marc_a_b
Skeptic Friend
USA
142 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2001 : 09:28:19 [Permalink]
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quote:
How worthless a vision is this?? It would have been more useful to have had a vision of something more useful than just Pope names.
But he didn't even get any names. (which could then be a self-fulfilling prophecy as popes are told they have to take the next name on the list) Malachy just gave discriptions. Ones that make even John Edwards look specific.
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2001 : 09:33:03 [Permalink]
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Descriptions??? LOL Now it's just pathetically silly.
@tomic
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law! |
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Donnie B.
Skeptic Friend
417 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2001 : 10:26:40 [Permalink]
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Just a second... just a second... message coming in...
Yes! I have it!
Pope J-P-II's successor will be...
... a Catholic!
Now, I want proper credit when the time comes...
-- Donnie B.
Brian: "No, no! You have to think for yourselves!" Crowd: "Yes! We have to think for ourselves!" |
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Tokyodreamer
SFN Regular
USA
1447 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2001 : 10:38:13 [Permalink]
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quote:
Descriptions??? LOL Now it's just pathetically silly.
I totally agree, and the author of the article I linked to in the first post that said this:
quote:
St Malachy famously predicted the name of every pope since the 12th Century reign of Innocent II.
should be severly disciplined, if not fired, for such a blatant inaccuracy.
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And if rain brings winds of change
let it rain on us forever.
I have no doubt from what I've seen
that I have never wanted more.
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2001 : 10:38:39 [Permalink]
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...and I see that it will be....an old white guy!
@tomic
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law! |
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ZaphodBeeblebrox
Skeptic Friend
USA
117 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2001 : 11:54:33 [Permalink]
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I don't know @tomic, last I heard, an African Priest, was considered to be the favorite.
If you Ignore Your Rights, they WILL, go away. |
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2001 : 12:09:24 [Permalink]
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Considered is one thing but so far they have all been old white guys. What could happen remains to be seen. Oh I forgot, this Malachy guy predicted it already 
@tomic
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law! |
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Tokyodreamer
SFN Regular
USA
1447 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2001 : 12:26:02 [Permalink]
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quote:
Considered is one thing but so far they have all been old white guys. What could happen remains to be seen. Oh I forgot, this Malachy guy predicted it already
According to the Catholic Encyclopaedia, the last pope will be "Peter the Roman". What are anyone's thoughts on whether or not the Catholics would actually appoint someone named Peter two popes from now?
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And if rain brings winds of change
let it rain on us forever.
I have no doubt from what I've seen
that I have never wanted more.
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ZaphodBeeblebrox
Skeptic Friend
USA
117 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2001 : 12:45:14 [Permalink]
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Well, after the 23 Johns, 6 Pauls, and 2 John Pauls, the chances are pretty good that the Pope after next, will choose the name Peter, if only to fulfill the Prophecy.
As for his name actually being Peter, hard to say, but that as well, could prove to be Self-Fulfilling.
Furthermore, his being an Italian Pope, is definitely in the offing, especially if the next one isn't.
If you Ignore Your Rights, they WILL, go away. |
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2001 : 13:02:33 [Permalink]
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quote:
Well, after the 23 Johns, 6 Pauls, and 2 John Pauls, the chances are pretty good that the Pope after next, will choose the name Peter, if only to fulfill the Prophecy.
This would put the church in a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. On the one hand why would someone want to fulfill an "end of the world" prophecy but at the same time they won't want to look silly after making this guy a saint based on his silly predictions.
@tomic
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law! |
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Tokyodreamer
SFN Regular
USA
1447 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2001 : 19:38:18 [Permalink]
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I'm guessing they wouldn't dare, for the simple fact that deep down inside, even they don't believe it, and they'll look like idiots when Peter the Roman pope comes and goes while the world keeps turnin'.
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And if rain brings winds of change
let it rain on us forever.
I have no doubt from what I've seen
that I have never wanted more.
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