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moakley
SFN Regular
USA
1888 Posts |
 Posted - 08/12/2005 : 13:39:06 [Permalink]
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| The old "It's true because I believe it" nonsense. |
Life is good
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 08/14/2005 : 11:56:32 [Permalink]
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| IDers should be careful what they wish for. If they want ID taught in science class they'll have to answer to science debunking IDs main premise of irreducible complexity. |
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Trish
SFN Addict
USA
2102 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2005 : 22:44:04 [Permalink]
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http://rockymountainnews.com/drmn/local/article/0,1299,DRMN_15_3982020,00.html
http://www.rmpbs.org/stateofmind/thisweek051305.html
Seems Bush's comments sparked the IDers to actually attempt to get ID into the school curricula here in CO. The one thing that we lack that IDers like, is a state school board. Each district determines it's own curricula based on the state standards of education.
My kid does, now, have a good biology teacher. Who she's already informed me will most likely refuse to teach the ID nonsense. I guess last year someone brought it up in class and the teacher dismissed it out of hand as having no basis in scientific process. And then proceeded to shred the 'finer points' of ID based on logic alone.
They're apparently trying to get the legislature to pass ID into the state standards of education. The state standards are based on the entrance requirements set by the universities. Even the fact that it's been brought up for discussion is frightening. I know that the Springs, home of Focus on the Family, would probably pass it. After all, they were willing to give a letter of welcome to a gathering of the KKK, but refused a standard letter of welcome to Athiest Alliance International, because it was in bad taste to have their convention in the Springs over Easter weekend. Although, CO Springs Atheists is a really active group and RM Skeptics will also probably take up the call. I don't think Atheists and Freethinkers of Denver have completely gotten their Colorado Science Education Coallition together. I believe it's being headed up by Vic Stenger, at least it was last I heard. It would still have to pass each individual school board to be taught throughout the state. Hopefully the majors, DPS, Adams 5 and 12, JeffCo R12, and Cherry Creek won't pass it, most other districts will follow their standards.
Anyway, I'll let you know if we need to start a letter writing campaign here in CO. If it goes to committee, guess I'll spend that day down at the capital. When they tried the 'In God We Trust' thing in all publically funded buildings, it was kinda hard to fight defining patriotism with an athiest Marine sitting in the hotseat, somehow I became very popular with a couple of the newspapers - go figure. Of course, my kid brought up a good point, just more clutter that the kids would ignore anyway. Too bad Emily Rosa is away at college, she's really good at speaking at the public committee meetings. |
...no one has ever found a 4.5 billion year old stone artifact (at the right geological stratum) with the words "Made by God."
No Sense of Obligation by Matt Young
"Say what you will about the sweet miracle of unquestioning faith. I consider the capacity for it terrifying and vile!"
Mother Night by Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.
They (Women Marines) don't have a nickname, and they don't need one. They get their basic training in a Marine atmosphere, at a Marine Post. They inherit the traditions of the Marines. They are Marines.
LtGen Thomas Holcomb, USMC
Commandant of the Marine Corps, 1943
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 08/18/2005 : 12:47:01 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Trish
......
My kid does, now, have a good biology teacher. Who she's already informed me will most likely refuse to teach the ID nonsense. I guess last year someone brought it up in class and the teacher dismissed it out of hand as having no basis in scientific process. And then proceeded to shred the 'finer points' of ID based on logic alone.
.......
Like I said, be careful what you wish for. |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 08/19/2005 : 16:05:04 [Permalink]
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Looks like Senate Majority Whore Leader Frist is in on the act as well:quote:
Frist, a Republican from Tennessee, spoke to a Rotary Club meeting Friday and told reporters afterward that students need to be exposed to different ideas, including intelligent design.
"I think today a pluralistic society should have access to a broad range of fact, of science, including faith," Frist said.
Later, Frist argued that the threory that little magical elves make cookies should also be taught. |
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moakley
SFN Regular
USA
1888 Posts |
Posted - 08/19/2005 : 18:11:53 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Cuneiformist
Looks like Senate Majority Whore Leader Frist is in on the act as well:
Even though it is not a scientifically valid poll, I was a little bit surprised and please to see that only 19% of the voters wanted ID taught. |
Life is good
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 08/19/2005 : 18:27:17 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by moakley
quote:
Originally posted by Cuneiformist
Looks like Senate Majority Whore Leader Frist is in on the act as well:
Even though it is not a scientifically valid poll, I was a little bit surprised and please to see that only 19% of the voters wanted ID taught.
Wow-- when I voted (just a minute or two before posting the comment) it was 80% against and 20% for. Thus, in a matter of just over an hour, it's shifted by one percentage point! |
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Starman
SFN Regular
Sweden
1613 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2005 : 02:32:38 [Permalink]
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Bill Maher's comments on Dubyas unintelligent comment: quote:
And finally New Rule: You don't have to teach both sides of a debate, if one side is a load of crap.
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verlch
SFN Regular
781 Posts |
Posted - 08/26/2005 : 12:20:29 [Permalink]
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Bush was smart enough to get elected twice!!!! lol...
Something all of you have failed to do. All he had to do was pretend to be Christian or truly become Christian, you decide.
Now days the government has all the gold and they make us work for paper money. So who is smarter? Them or Us???
The fundemental break down of society has come of age, nowdays a woman can't feel safe in the company of her own race, country or creed. Blame that on fatherlessness. Everything the bible has stood for morally is being broken down, can't you see it? Are you blind as bats??
So why hate Bush because he does what men with billions want him to do???
Another thing is, if I want to believe in God whats it to you?
Free will baby, you believe you evolved from a rock to a tree and then back to a rock again I believe its impossible gentlemen!!
I believe that a mound of dirt can not and will not bring forth life and to believe so is to serve your master well...who the scripture says wants nothing more than your soul.
So when you fear the night, or fear theives or rapists, remeber that the cornerstone of a lawless and criminal generation is the break down of the marriage between a man and a woman!!! See that no man takes your reward eternal life away from you!!!
21: And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;
22: And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.
23: And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.
24: Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
25: And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.
Perhaps someday a stable family unit will be returned to America, instead of Heterophobes running the show. Nowdays a family in California consists of two Lesbians. You will see the fruits of that, lets watch gentlemen!!! |
What came first the chicken or the egg?
How do plants exist without bugs in the soil, and bugs in the soil without plants producing oxygen?
There are no atheists in foxholes
Underlying the evolutionary theory is not just the classic "stuff" of science — conclusions arrived at through prolonged observation and experimentation. Evolution is first an atheistic, materialistic world view. In other words, the primary reason for its acceptance has little to do with the evidence for or against it. Evolution is accepted because men are atheists by faith and thus interpret the evidence to cor-respond to their naturalistic philosophy.
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. II Timothy 4:3,4
II Thess. 2:11 And for this cause God shall
send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
You can not see the 'wind', but you can see its effect!!!!
Evolution was caused by genetic mistakes at each stage?
Radical Evolution has 500 million years to find fossils of fictional drawings of (hard core)missing links, yet they find none.
We have not seen such moral darkness since the dark ages, coencides with
teaching evolution in schools. (Moral darkness)
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places, EPH 6:12.
"Thus, many scientists embracing naturalism find themselves in the seeming dilemma recently articulated by biochemist Franklin Harold: "We should reject, as a matter of principle, the substitution of intelligent design for the dialogue of chance and necessity [i.e., Darwinian evolution]; but we must concede that there are presently no detailed Darwinian accounts of the evolution of any biochemical system, only a variety of wishful speculations."
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 08/26/2005 : 12:39:04 [Permalink]
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Welcome back Big V!
To mine a quote of yours: quote:
I believe that a mound of dirt can not and will not bring forth life and to believe so is to serve your master well...who the scripture says wants nothing more than your soul.
Do correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this exactly the substance that the Bible claims God made Adam from?
And I hate Bush not because the is a real or pretend Christian, but that he is a chronic liar, an incompentent, a snivling coward, and a traitor trying to undermind the Constitution and has brought ruin to this country.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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pleco
SFN Addict
USA
2998 Posts |
Posted - 08/26/2005 : 12:41:52 [Permalink]
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I wonder if verlch wears a seatbelt.
I love hearing about not being able to see the wind. That has got to be the top 10 dumbest argument of all time. |
by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart. |
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| Edited by - pleco on 08/26/2005 12:44:28 |
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Siberia
SFN Addict
Brazil
2322 Posts |
Posted - 08/26/2005 : 12:56:02 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by filthy
Welcome back Big V!
To mine a quote of yours: quote:
I believe that a mound of dirt can not and will not bring forth life and to believe so is to serve your master well...who the scripture says wants nothing more than your soul.
Do correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this exactly the substance that the Bible claims God made Adam from?
Jackpot! |
"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa
"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 08/27/2005 : 00:38:26 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by verlch
Bush was smart enough to get elected twice!!!! lol...
Clearly intelligence was not the deciding factor.
quote:
Something all of you have failed to do. All he had to do was pretend to be Christian or truly become Christian, you decide.
Oh I think he believes the stuff. But to claim that got him elected is pretty silly since all presidents so far have had to put on the air of being a believer to get elected. That doesn't mean religion is good or bad, just that the human psyche hasn't outgrown its childhood fantasies yet.
quote:
Now days the government has all the gold and they make us work for paper money. So who is smarter? Them or Us???
You can't eat either paper or gold. I'll take what either buys, thank you. And paper spends a little easier than gold at the grocer.
quote:
The fundemental break down of society has come of age, nowdays a woman can't feel safe in the company of her own race, country or creed. Blame that on fatherlessness. Everything the bible has stood for morally is being broken down, can't you see it? Are you blind as bats??
To steal a concept from Jon Stuart, are you saying we were better off when there was slavery and witch burning in the US? That was better and now we are in moral decay?
quote:
So why hate Bush because he does what men with billions want him to do???
Well, for starters because he's invaded a country with other humans making the sacrifices and has let those billionaires you speak of abscond with even more billions. The world is much worse off thanks to his incompetence and corruption.
quote:
Another thing is, if I want to believe in God whats it to you?
Free will baby, you believe you evolved from a rock to a tree and then back to a rock again I believe its impossible gentlemen!!
I really don't care what individuals believe but I do care that the human race makes progress in its collective mind. You have one of those disturbed thought processes that never will understand evidence and science but I can respond once in a while to your statements as I know others might be reading these exchanges on occasion.
quote:
I believe that a mound of dirt can not and will not bring forth life and to believe so is to serve your master well...who the scripture says wants nothing more than your soul.
This is not worthy of a response beyond what has been said about Adam's dirt based beginning.
quote:
So when you fear the night, or fear theives or rapists, remeber that the cornerstone of a lawless and criminal generation is the break down of the marriage between a man and a woman!!! See that no man takes your reward eternal life away from you!!!
Actually, I live in a pretty safe neighborhood. I walk alone at night and in the park behind my house. We've only ever had a rare breakin in the neighborhood and no violent crime to speak of. Like I said, to think the breakdown of marriage is the cause or marker of societies ills means you've got a very distorted view of the problems in the past compared to the present. I somehow doubt the old days you think of ever existed.
quote:
21: And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall up on Adam and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;
22: And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.
23: And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.
24: Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
25: And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.
Perhaps someday a stable family unit will be returned to America, instead of Heterophobes running the show. Nowdays a family in California consists of two Lesbians. You will see the fruits of that, lets watch gentlemen!!!
What is the big deal. You are pretty weird and wickedly judgmental. Perhaps you'd like to discuss the morality of Pat Robertson advocating murder of an elected official then lying about having said it. Shouldn't his ideal family life prevent him from being such a jerk? Or is it the fault of everyone else? Well never mind, I am getting off topic. |
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verlch
SFN Regular
781 Posts |
Posted - 08/27/2005 : 01:08:24 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by pleco
I wonder if verlch wears a seatbelt.
I love hearing about not being able to see the wind. That has got to be the top 10 dumbest argument of all time.
How so in its most simple form? It pushes trees around and yet is so invisible. Kinda like God. You can't see Him, but by the complex world around you you can see His handy work!!!
You say evolution evolved invisible as it is. We can't even see in the fossil records the form a mammoth was before it was a mammoth. Its one of those invisible fossils you can't see anymore.
You as you sit are a genetic mutation as am I, I would not expect to see so many genetic mutations all of the same species. I would expectd to see some mutants that survive and are not wiped out. Some, maybe one, maybe on with a thrid or fourth eye or arm or leg or pivate part. Not a defect, but a mutation of a mutation so to speak. I wanna see some Macro Evolution in action, not pirctures drawn by man, but some concrete proof instead of story telling to the max...
This same invisible force in a Hurricane can rip apart homes and yet it is so invisible.
I think it is so simple it might confound a smart man. In its simplest form. |
What came first the chicken or the egg?
How do plants exist without bugs in the soil, and bugs in the soil without plants producing oxygen?
There are no atheists in foxholes
Underlying the evolutionary theory is not just the classic "stuff" of science — conclusions arrived at through prolonged observation and experimentation. Evolution is first an atheistic, materialistic world view. In other words, the primary reason for its acceptance has little to do with the evidence for or against it. Evolution is accepted because men are atheists by faith and thus interpret the evidence to cor-respond to their naturalistic philosophy.
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. II Timothy 4:3,4
II Thess. 2:11 And for this cause God shall
send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
You can not see the 'wind', but you can see its effect!!!!
Evolution was caused by genetic mistakes at each stage?
Radical Evolution has 500 million years to find fossils of fictional drawings of (hard core)missing links, yet they find none.
We have not seen such moral darkness since the dark ages, coencides with
teaching evolution in schools. (Moral darkness)
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places, EPH 6:12.
"Thus, many scientists embracing naturalism find themselves in the seeming dilemma recently articulated by biochemist Franklin Harold: "We should reject, as a matter of principle, the substitution of intelligent design for the dialogue of chance and necessity [i.e., Darwinian evolution]; but we must concede that there are presently no detailed Darwinian accounts of the evolution of any biochemical system, only a variety of wishful speculations."
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verlch
SFN Regular
781 Posts |
Posted - 08/27/2005 : 01:36:49 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by filthy
Welcome back Big V!
To mine a quote of yours: quote:
I believe that a mound of dirt can not and will not bring forth life and to believe so is to serve your master well...who the scripture says wants nothing more than your soul.
Do correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this exactly the substance that the Bible claims God made Adam from?
And I hate Bush not because the is a real or pretend Christian, but that he is a chronic liar, an incompentent, a snivling coward, and a traitor trying to undermind the Constitution and has brought ruin to this country.
Well I think Bush has got alot of power, his connections at Yale, Skull and Bones, Gov. of Texas, owner of a baseball team, cocaine connections  and the Saudi connections. All of the connections between his father, grandfather brother and to a lighter degree his mother all speak of his ability to run his agenda and his dogma.
Face it each president has done it. FDR took away our gold and gave us paper money.
http://www.libertyhaven.com/regulationandpropertyrights/bankingmoneyorfinance/goldstandard/greatgold.shtml
I think what he did is just as bad as Bush. They are out to enrich themselves at the expense of the world.
That was a good quote, but remember our God is a living entity. His ways are above us. He formed Adam as a Man forms a car, God breathed into him His breath of life and he became a living being. A man puts gas in the car and without it the car wouldn't run, just like without oxygen man would die, without plants producting oxygen everything would die and without the sun everything would freeze.
So, my friend, we should all be mightly thankful for the sun, without it life would not exist. Now who on earth could create such a large thing like the sun? Hmm there appears to be plenty of order with the sun. Shall we equate the sunshine with mere chance? No design nothing. When was the last time man made anything so complex as just his eye? 256 uniqueness in each persons eyes that makes them different from everybody else.
Evolution just smacks at silliness I can't believe anybody bought it. |
What came first the chicken or the egg?
How do plants exist without bugs in the soil, and bugs in the soil without plants producing oxygen?
There are no atheists in foxholes
Underlying the evolutionary theory is not just the classic "stuff" of science — conclusions arrived at through prolonged observation and experimentation. Evolution is first an atheistic, materialistic world view. In other words, the primary reason for its acceptance has little to do with the evidence for or against it. Evolution is accepted because men are atheists by faith and thus interpret the evidence to cor-respond to their naturalistic philosophy.
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. II Timothy 4:3,4
II Thess. 2:11 And for this cause God shall
send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
You can not see the 'wind', but you can see its effect!!!!
Evolution was caused by genetic mistakes at each stage?
Radical Evolution has 500 million years to find fossils of fictional drawings of (hard core)missing links, yet they find none.
We have not seen such moral darkness since the dark ages, coencides with
teaching evolution in schools. (Moral darkness)
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places, EPH 6:12.
"Thus, many scientists embracing naturalism find themselves in the seeming dilemma recently articulated by biochemist Franklin Harold: "We should reject, as a matter of principle, the substitution of intelligent design for the dialogue of chance and necessity [i.e., Darwinian evolution]; but we must concede that there are presently no detailed Darwinian accounts of the evolution of any biochemical system, only a variety of wishful speculations."
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