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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
 Posted - 09/06/2005 : 07:49:44 [Permalink]
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quote:
And that is the one thing I don't understand about this whole "debate." Why do christians give a rat's ass about what is taught in public schools? They can simply take their kids and have them taught in church run schools, and there are plenty of them.
Because what they really want is to recruit your kids. They know very well that they can teach their own children whatever nonsense they like, but it makes them crazt that they can't teach the children of secular families the "truth(tm)".
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 09/06/2005 : 13:09:11 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dude
quote:
And that is the one thing I don't understand about this whole "debate." Why do christians give a rat's ass about what is taught in public schools? They can simply take their kids and have them taught in church run schools, and there are plenty of them.
Because what they really want is to recruit your kids. They know very well that they can teach their own children whatever nonsense they like, but it makes them crazt that they can't teach the children of secular families the "truth(tm)".
I do think it also bothers them that their kids learn in school their parents are wrong. |
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pleco
SFN Addict
USA
2998 Posts |
Posted - 09/06/2005 : 13:16:02 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal
I do think it also bothers them that their kids learn in school their parents are wrong.
I'm sure it does. Especially when their kids come home with questions and they don't have any adequate answers other than "The bible says so." or "God did it."
They can yank their kids out and put them in a school that teaches what they think is true (lol).
These people say they want government out of their lives, but they sure don't have a problem using the government to put their own worldview into eveyone else's lives.
Hypocrites the lot of 'em.
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by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart. |
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Subjectmatter
Skeptic Friend
173 Posts |
Posted - 09/06/2005 : 13:16:09 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal
I do think it also bothers them that their kids learn in school their parents are wrong.
You know, that bothers me too. Something should be done...
I suggest new parents.
There are plenty of couples here in Sweden that can't adopt because the laws of most nations with parent-deficits prevent same-sex couples from adopting their children, I say send them to us.
*Edit removed redundant parts of quote and phrase in main text |
Sibling Atom Bomb of Couteous Debate |
| Edited by - Subjectmatter on 09/06/2005 13:19:15 |
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the_ignored
SFN Addict
2562 Posts |
Posted - 09/06/2005 : 15:47:45 [Permalink]
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Well, Anwers in Genesis has just come out with a statement
You can guess what that's like:
quote:
So what is this great and overwhelming #8220;proof#8221; of chimp-human common ancestry? Researchers claim that there is little genetic difference between us (only 4%). This is a very strange kind of proof because it is actually double the percentage difference that has been claimed for years!4 The reality is, no matter what the percentage difference, whether 2%, 4%, or 10%, they still would have claimed that Darwin was right.
And that assertion is based on what? Their strawman view of how scientists think?
quote:
Further, the use of percentages obscures the magnitude of the differences. For example, 1.23% of the differences are single base pair substitutions. This doesn#8217;t sound like much until you realize that it represents ~35 million mutations! But that is only the beginning, because there are ~40#8211;45 million bases present in humans and missing from chimps, as well as about the same number present in chimps that is absent from man.
So what? Look at the numbers you'd get when you look at the other 96%! It's amazing how they harp like crazy on the differences, and talk about the numbers there, while ignoring the far larger numbers that show similarities. |
>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.
What brought that on? this. Original posting here.
Another example of this guy's lunacy here. |
| Edited by - the_ignored on 09/06/2005 15:48:54 |
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Dry_vby
Skeptic Friend
Australia
249 Posts |
Posted - 09/06/2005 : 16:04:12 [Permalink]
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Most learned people will understand that numbers in and of themselves mean very little.
Numbers can be manipulated to support any argument depending on the required outcome.
As long as the ID lobby juggle these numbers, they appear to the average folk to be engaging in serious refuteing.
Just another of the sleight-of-hand charlatens tricks they use to impress the little mind.
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"I'll go along with the charade
Until I can think my way out.
I know it was all a big joke
Whatever it was about."
Bob Dylan
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R.Wreck
SFN Regular
USA
1191 Posts |
Posted - 09/06/2005 : 17:21:42 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by pleco:
These people say they want government out of their lives, but they sure don't have a problem using the government to put their own worldview into eveyone else's lives.
Hypocrites the lot of 'em.
So true. It also bothers me that the natural outcome of acceptance of ID Creationism is a rise in the overall stupidity level of society, which is something we definitely don't need given the challenges we face. We need people who can actually think and solve problems, not more mindless sheep believing that any and all ideas are equally likely to have merit (just pick the one you like). |
The foundation of morality is to . . . give up pretending to believe that for which there is no evidence, and repeating unintelligible propositions about things beyond the possibliities of knowledge.
T. H. Huxley
The Cattle Prod of Enlightened Compassion
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 09/07/2005 : 14:41:08 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Doomar
quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
And I don't think anyone truly claims the Theory of Evolution to be absolute. It is a complex description of the real world, and it has flaws. It does not pretend to be The Ultimate Truth
Indeed. So why not entertain other theories...
I'm sure you meant to write "why not entertain other hypothesis". We have entertained them, and found them entertaining but without substance or evidence of connection to reality. That's why we dismiss ID: it's not a theory.
quote:
...rather than simply try to plug everything in biological science into the Darwinian framework? If the shoe fits, wear it. If it rubs your foot raw, maybe it's the wrong shoe.
There's nothing wrong with the shoe, it's your thick head foot that is too large. You want to squeeze more (supernatural) into the shoe (ToE) than there's room for (science dictates the size).
The fossil record is not as perfect as we would like it (that means complete fossils with surviving DNA that can clearly show a complete "tree of life"). But you are forgetting/ignoring something really important:
1) Many fossils have been destroyed by geological events.
2) Almost all species are localised in more or less degree which means that species that developed for millions of years in a geologically active area then migrated elsewhere will appear fully developed in strata.
Absense of evidence is not Evidece of Absense.
This is the most apparent logical error you are committing when you speak of "black holes" in the ToE, and when you insist that species was created separate and refer to the fossil record as evidence of you claim.
Doomar, you need a crash cource in applied logic. |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 09/07/2005 : 15:41:31 [Permalink]
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quote:
Doomar, you need a crash cource in applied logic.
It wouldn't help him. He already knows he is right, so why bother with any of that logic, science, or other hard to learn stuff?
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Dry_vby
Skeptic Friend
Australia
249 Posts |
Posted - 09/07/2005 : 15:54:12 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dude
quote:
Doomar, you need a crash cource in applied logic.
It wouldn't help him. He already knows he is right, so why bother with any of that logic, science, or other hard to learn stuff?
Exactly right.
The knowing is the proof for people of Doomars ilk.
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"I'll go along with the charade
Until I can think my way out.
I know it was all a big joke
Whatever it was about."
Bob Dylan
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 09/08/2005 : 00:45:37 [Permalink]
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While reading these comments it occurred to me that the problem is all folks, by their nature, filter the facts to fit their preconceived views. It doesn't matter that genetic science explains the mechanisms of evolution. If one doesn't want to change the long held concept that evolution is only weakly supported by the evidence, then the evidence supporting evolution is assigned an insignificant value by that person's brain.
Some of us have a much better grip on science and scientific evidence. We are also subject to prejudicial valuing of evidence. But those that tend not to understand or utilize the scientific process do not assign value to scientific evidence as those of us who do utilize science do.
Until the filter changes, the evidence continues to be disregarded. But at some point, the evidence becomes so overwhelming that even those not valuing it have to face the fact it overwhelmingly supports, in this case, evolution.
In another decade or so this whole nonsense is going to go the way the flat Earth and the Earth centered Universe have gone,... away, with the exception of the thoughts in a few twisted minds. |
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pleco
SFN Addict
USA
2998 Posts |
Posted - 09/08/2005 : 04:34:52 [Permalink]
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| I would like to think it will take only another decade or so, but I have my doubts. At least in the US I think it will take much longer (if it ever happens). |
by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart. |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 09/08/2005 : 13:01:22 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by pleco
I would like to think it will take only another decade or so, but I have my doubts. At least in the US I think it will take much longer (if it ever happens).
The accumulation of scientific data is moving on a logarithmic scale. There is a delay between what science specialists know and what the general public knows. But at some point what the specialists know seeps into the public mindset.
While on the one hand folks still don't get it that germs, not cold weather cause disease, everyone pretty much knows what causes earthquakes and volcanoes. Basic genetics and evolutionary science will be mainstream high school study within a decade. It is inevitable.
There may be a huge number of folks who ignore it just as we ignore infectious disease science, but I tend to think the majority will soon forget this evolution is weak science stuff and figure it out. |
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pleco
SFN Addict
USA
2998 Posts |
Posted - 09/08/2005 : 13:13:47 [Permalink]
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| What causes earthquakes and volcanoes does not conflict with basic fundie-religous precepts (afaik). |
by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart. |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 09/08/2005 : 16:01:06 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal
While reading these comments it occurred to me that the problem is all folks, by their nature, filter the facts to fit their preconceived views. It doesn't matter that genetic science explains the mechanisms of evolution. If one doesn't want to change the long held concept that evolution is only weakly supported by the evidence, then the evidence supporting evolution is assigned an insignificant value by that person's brain.
This filter is generally referred to as Morton's Demon.
It is evident that Doomar suffer from Morton's Demon. |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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