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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
 Posted - 09/01/2005 : 13:28:02
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http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9143023/
38,000 years ago Neanderthals and humans co-existed. In France.
Evolution said this would happen, Creationism still claims it couldn't.
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Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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chaloobi
SFN Regular
1620 Posts |
Posted - 09/15/2005 : 06:45:53 [Permalink]
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| "Co-exist" may be a generously benign description. I've read theories that homo sapiens may have, uh, extinguished the "less fit" Neanderthals. Such is nature. |
-Chaloobi
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 09/15/2005 : 13:08:41 [Permalink]
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| Well, "less sapient" individuals of current homo sapien is not only aggressive toward unknowns and people different-looking from themselves, but also very territorial. We have evidence of this throughout recorded history. Given that genetic traits change slowly, it is a logical conclusion that when Cro-Magnon lived side by side with Neanderthals, one species would subject the other to genocide. |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 09/15/2005 : 14:09:32 [Permalink]
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I don't understand what all the shoutin's about. I thought that it was accepted by all concerned, and has been for many decades, that H. neandertalisis and H. sapiens were contemporaries, for a while, at least. The demise of neandertalisis is a major question, one that may never be answered, but apart from detail, that's about all that's left.
And if the earth is only 6,000 years old, as the willfully blind and devoutly ignorant insist, then they could scarcly avoid being cotempories, could they?
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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| Edited by - filthy on 09/15/2005 14:12:36 |
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Chippewa
SFN Regular
USA
1496 Posts |
Posted - 09/15/2005 : 15:20:15 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
...Given that genetic traits change slowly, it is a logical conclusion that when Cro-Magnon lived side by side with Neanderthals, one species would subject the other to genocide.
"Genocide" implies a systematic eradication of all Neanderthals by all Cro-Magnon, but there is no evidence for that, nor for mass dead from battles. There is also some evidence (which I cannot site at this time as I read it in Scientific American years ago,) that Cro-Magnon and Neanderthals mated and produced hybrid offspring. A few skeletal remains have been found with subtle characteristics of both peoples. And there are other factors not considered; for all we know, Neanderthals despite their strong bone structure and robustness, might have been much more susceptible to a disease than Cro-Magnon was.
Comparing them, both designed and made weapons and clothing. Cro-Magnon had better visual art with great cave paintings, whereas Neanderthals just made mysterious geometric patterns on stones. (Unless something was discovered more recently.) Their brains were the same size, and they probably both had language and hunted in groups. Neanderthals died out or were killed off, or both, but there is likely some Neanderthal in us today.
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Diversity, independence, innovation and imagination are progressive concepts ultimately alien to the conservative mind.
"TAX AND SPEND" IS GOOD! (TAX: Wealthy corporations who won't go poor even after taxes. SPEND: On public works programs, education, the environment, improvements.) |
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chaloobi
SFN Regular
1620 Posts |
Posted - 09/15/2005 : 16:03:42 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Chippewa
quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
...Given that genetic traits change slowly, it is a logical conclusion that when Cro-Magnon lived side by side with Neanderthals, one species would subject the other to genocide.
"Genocide" implies a systematic eradication of all Neanderthals by all Cro-Magnon, but there is no evidence for that, nor for mass dead from battles. There is also some evidence (which I cannot site at this time as I read it in Scientific American years ago,) that Cro-Magnon and Neanderthals mated and produced hybrid offspring. A few skeletal remains have been found with subtle characteristics of both peoples. And there are other factors not considered; for all we know, Neanderthals despite their strong bone structure and robustness, might have been much more susceptible to a disease than Cro-Magnon was.
Comparing them, both designed and made weapons and clothing. Cro-Magnon had better visual art with great cave paintings, whereas Neanderthals just made mysterious geometric patterns on stones. (Unless something was discovered more recently.) Their brains were the same size, and they probably both had language and hunted in groups. Neanderthals died out or were killed off, or both, but there is likely some Neanderthal in us today.
I read that same story in SciAm. Also, they've found flutes made from animal bones in Neanderthal arheaological sites suggesting they made music. |
-Chaloobi
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 09/16/2005 : 16:56:43 [Permalink]
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chaloobi wrote: I've read theories that homo sapiens may have, uh, extinguished the "less fit" Neanderthals.
There is no evidence for physical warfare, so the extinguishing happened through outcompeting for similar resources, most likely. At least that's been the reigning theory for a while. There is still heated disagreement among anthropologists over whether early modern humans mated and produced some offspring with homo erectus and neanderthals.
Chippewa wrote: Cro-Magnon had better visual art with great cave paintings, whereas Neanderthals just made mysterious geometric patterns on stones.
Everything I've ever read (and this has been a subject of interest to me for years) says that claims of any neanderthal art are weak and generally not accepted by the scientific community at large. (The explanation is that they were copying Cro-Magnon art.) In fact, early modern humans didn't even start making art until around 35-50 thousand years ago, and it seems like it might have corrolated with competition with other homonids; As if the cultural evolution of visual representation gave them some sort of competative advantage. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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| Edited by - marfknox on 09/16/2005 16:57:05 |
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