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Doomar
SFN Regular
USA
714 Posts |
 Posted - 09/04/2005 : 12:24:40
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"Religious shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise." James Madison, Fourth President of the Untited States.
If this is considered to be true, one could infer that "Religious freedom frees and enhances the mind and makes it fit for for every noble enterprise."
The questions remain: What is religious bondage? What is religious freedom? Does religious freedom equate to "freedom from religion"? Probably not. Religious bondage implies great restriction imposed by certain religious belief or organizations, upon that individual who embraces that religion. Whereas, religious freedom, as Madison surely believed he embraced, was something good. From records I have read, it appears Madison was a diest, or one that believed strongly in the Creator of all things, but did not embrace any religious organization.
...Freedom arises from the multiplicity of sects, which prevades America and which is the best and only security for religious liberty in any society. For where there is such a variety of sects, there cannot be a majority of any one sect to oppress and persecute the rest. [James Madison, spoken at the Virginia convention on ratifying the Constitution, June 1778]
Whilst we assert for ourselves a freedom to embrace, to profess and observe the Religion which we believe to be of divine origin, we cannot deny equal freedom to those whose minds have not yet yielded to the evidence which has convinced us. If this freedom be abused, it is an offense against God, not against man:To God, therefore, not to man, must an account of it be rendered. [James Madison, according to Leonard W. Levy, Treason Against God: A History of the Offense of Blasphemy, New York: Schocken Books, 1981, p. xii.]
From such a quote of Madison, it can hardly be shown that he was against religion, but rather abuses from the hierarchy of religious organizations.
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Mark 10:27 (NKJV) 27But Jesus looked at them and said, “With men it is impossible, but not with God; for with God all things are possible.”
www.pastorsb.com.htm |
Edited by - Doomar on 09/04/2005 12:38:48
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 09/04/2005 : 15:55:45 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Doomar
Does religious freedom equate to "freedom from religion"? Probably not.
The only way it could not equate is if professing no religion is not an acceptable choice. Our courts and the Framers of the Constitution have clearly said that "I have no religion" is a perfectly valid choice, and people are free to embrace it - and that no governmental body is free to impose religion (in general) upon anyone.
Being free to exercise the religion of your choice must include being free to not exercise any religion at all. Who would prosecute the atheists? |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Doomar
SFN Regular
USA
714 Posts |
Posted - 09/04/2005 : 20:41:16 [Permalink]
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| Agreed! |
Mark 10:27 (NKJV) 27But Jesus looked at them and said, “With men it is impossible, but not with God; for with God all things are possible.”
www.pastorsb.com.htm |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 09/04/2005 : 23:52:45 [Permalink]
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I suspect Doomar is making the mistake so, so many Christian fundamentalists make--which is that a government which promotes no religion is the same as one which promotes atheism.
Sorry, D. The govenment can't offically "be" anything. Which means no Christian 10 commandments in courthouses and no placards on the wall which state "There is no god." Not having anything of a religious nature on the walls doesn't mean atheism by default. It means no one position is endorsed.
And that's because government can't have anything to do with anything of a religious nature. Period. That's what Madison meant. Individuals are free to worship how they choose. It is inappropriate for there to be any religious expression by government, however.
So it doesn't mean "freedom from religion" in the sense that I can walk down a street and not expect to see a church. But it does mean "freedom from religion" in the sense that I can expect to walk into Congress and not see a Christian bible.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
| Edited by - H. Humbert on 09/05/2005 00:00:08 |
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pleco
SFN Addict
USA
2998 Posts |
Posted - 09/05/2005 : 06:14:38 [Permalink]
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Unfortunately, it is quite apparent that the US government does promote theism in general, and christianity specifically. And with Bush in office, it does it quite actively. Just go to the FEMA donation page and look at the listed organizations, or the "In god we trust" on money, or the prayers said in the Supreme Court, Congress, etc. 
And now, with intellectual amoebas like "judge" moore (from my home state unfortunately) and others running around, the push grows.
Personally, I think Moore should be tried for treason and insurrection.
Eventually, this country will dumb it's population down to where REAL changes to the framework will be made and the US will move from Republic to Theocracy. When that happens, the US will no longer lead the world in anything (especially eduation and technology), and will eventually destroy itself. That is my prediction. |
by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart. |
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| Edited by - pleco on 09/05/2005 06:17:41 |
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
Posted - 09/06/2005 : 05:55:35 [Permalink]
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| Just because The USA is still standing doesnt mean our system is a good one. Anyone see HBO's Rome? its quite good once you get past all the naked hot chicks... |
"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History
"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini |
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