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LizW
Skeptic Friend
USA
113 Posts |
 Posted - 09/13/2005 : 07:08:58
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I am wondering if the obesity problem in America can really be considered an EPIDEMIC.
If so, what should the government do to protect the public health?
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You learn something new every g****mn day! |
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Subjectmatter
Skeptic Friend
173 Posts |
 Posted - 09/13/2005 : 07:46:51 [Permalink]
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I don't know if I want to call it an epidemic, but I will call it disgusting.
Promote daily exercise and destroy the elitist view of sports that pervades the nation. Why would you watch someone kick a ball around when you could be kicking it yourself WTF?
Get people out of cars and onto bicycles and feet when getting around. Try to tone down the focus on diet as people worrying constantly about what they eat often does as much harm than good (this being said I have heard of eating habits which make me feel sick) the middle road is to inform people about human physiology but not send out wave upon wave of propaganda aout the evils of fats and sugar - it is dangerous to oversimplify the issue.
Perhaps most importantly TAX SOFT DRINKS. People often forget how much carbohydrate is in these, and I have heard that there is research which suggests that light and diet versions do not actually help as much as one might expect. |
Sibling Atom Bomb of Couteous Debate |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 09/13/2005 : 09:13:04 [Permalink]
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I am prepared to say that childhood obesity is epidemic. Unfortunately I don't have time to back up that assertion at the moment…
I will get back to this.
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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astropin
SFN Regular
USA
970 Posts |
Posted - 09/13/2005 : 09:45:14 [Permalink]
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This months Skeptical Inquirer has an article: "Obesity: Epidemic or Myth?
From the article:
"The Journal of the American Medical Association had a recent analysis by Katherine Flegal and her colleagues at the CDC which called the severity of the dangers of excess bady fat into question, indicating that the number of overweight and obesity related deaths is actually about 26,000, or about one fifteenth of the earlier estimate of 400,000. There is little argument about the fact that, as a nation more of us are fatter than ever; the disagreement lies in the effect that this has on our health." |
I would rather face a cold reality than delude myself with comforting fantasies.
You are free to believe what you want to believe and I am free to ridicule you for it.
Atheism:
The result of an unbiased and rational search for the truth.
Infinitus est numerus stultorum |
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moakley
SFN Regular
USA
1888 Posts |
Posted - 09/13/2005 : 09:59:23 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Subjectmatter
Perhaps most importantly TAX SOFT DRINKS.
Interesting idea and lets also include donuts, candy, and other sugary treats. Used as a way to pay for the increased health cost. After all the CDC considers obesity a health risk.
http://www.cdc.gov/od/oc/media/pressrel/r991026.htm
http://usinfo.state.gov/journals/itgic/0105/ijge/dietz.htm
And I agree with many of the other points that you have made considering this subject matter. What's the first word used by people when they consider losing weight. "Diet", not "Exercise" or "Diet and Exercise".
I average over 40 minutes of cardio work each day, but the BMI still has me at overweight. |
Life is good
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous |
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woolytoad
Skeptic Friend
313 Posts |
Posted - 09/13/2005 : 10:25:38 [Permalink]
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quote:
And I agree with many of the other points that you have made considering this subject matter. What's the first word used by people when they consider losing weight. "Diet", not "Exercise" or "Diet and Exercise".
I average over 40 minutes of cardio work each day, but the BMI still has me at overweight.
Diet should be the first thing you think of when trying to loose weight. As in "healthy diet". People eat too much crap these days.
In Singapore we also had a physical fitness test in highschool. Each year you had to pass it. If you didn't, you kept trying until you did. So this would be part of PE every year, getting everybody ready to pass it. |
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
Posted - 09/13/2005 : 12:04:23 [Permalink]
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Thats a good idea, parents wouldnt ignore the problem if their kid wouldnt pass school. However those few who have legit genetic issues would be singled out...
Either way it is far eaiser to get far fatter in America than it was 20 years ago, each year fat delicious food becomes more conveinient to eat and more addicting. 20 years ago maybe one in five farm towns had a McDonalds, now its odd not to find at least a Mcdonalds. Even the suburbs of bigger towns were relativly fast food free 20 years ago.
I live within 1 mile of the following
McDonalds
Burger King
Wendys
Taco Bell
Mr Taco (Fake Authentic)
Famous Taco (Authentic)
Mancinos Pizza and Grinders
6 other pizza only stores
Blimpie
Subway
Arby's
YaYa's Chicken
KFC
2 local chicken only places
3 icecream stores
3 chinese fast food restaurants
plus about 20 more of these in the mall, with the Pretzel and cookie stores
About 15 American standard restaurts (Outback, Damons, etc) Which do not specialize in anything healthy.
10 or so corner store/gas stations for soda and candy
the normal grocery store for that pre-made cookie dough fix
and of course the bulk food store for when I need 300 strips of bacon.
I think there is still a workout place somewhere near here.
Now I have a small excuse for being overweight in that my street is so busy that I cant walk across it to get my Mcnuggets. I know most dont live where I do, but most who dont drive down a street with the above restaurants on it everyday or twice a day.
P.S. If you want to lose weight, reduce calories, stop posing for paintings and take a walk. |
"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History
"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 09/13/2005 : 13:49:37 [Permalink]
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We evolved in the bush, having to work for food to some extent. We now have a culture that evolved into marketing, mass food production and lots of sugar and fats.
Evolution is slow. Cultural evolution is much faster. The consequences can indeed be that we have created a world we are not best adapted to.
I'm waiting for the pill or other form of magic bullet. Technology got us here it should be able to make the needed corrections.
You can advise people to eat right and exercise all you want but research shows very few people are successful at losing weight and keeping it off. That tells us it isn't as simple as 'willpower' despite what some people choose to believe.
There's money to be made so the research is coming right along. No big breakthroughs but a lot of progress understanding the mechanisms behind obesity. |
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LizW
Skeptic Friend
USA
113 Posts |
Posted - 09/13/2005 : 14:00:21 [Permalink]
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We still administer TB skin patch tests in schools, should we also consider testing for body fat percentages?
Should we consider being overweight a side effect of our changing environment, or is it just a personal failing?
If we don't find a way to separate the problem from the stigma, any process used to determine which children are at risk will cause emotional problems.
Subjectmatter, I love the idea of taxing softdrinks (even though I am a Diet Pepsi fiend.) I think the big players in fast food and processed foods should also be held responsible for helping to fund physical education intiatives and maybe some public health clubs.
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You learn something new every g****mn day! |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 09/13/2005 : 14:15:57 [Permalink]
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quote:
but the BMI still has me at overweight.
BMI is a poor tool. Height vs weight doesn't work. I, for example, should weight 190lb according to BMI. I'd look like a famine victim at 190. The last time I was in really good physical shape I was 230lb with a bodyfat of 11%. (oh the glory days, where have ye gone?)
Bodyfat % is better. 20% or less.
Plus it gives you a better way to track progress when you engage in an exercise program. Sometimes your weight can remain constant, but your %fat decreases.
But in answer to the OP... Obesity plays a role in your health, always a negative one. Is it epidemic? I dunno. There is no clear info on how fat is to fat for good health. Age also plays into it. Young fat people are healthier than old fat people.
But I can say this, in my experience as a healthcare professional I have never seen a 100 year old obese person. |
Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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| Edited by - Dude on 09/13/2005 14:16:53 |
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moakley
SFN Regular
USA
1888 Posts |
Posted - 09/13/2005 : 14:50:56 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by LizW
If we don't find a way to separate the problem from the stigma, any process used to determine which children are at risk will cause emotional problems.
According to this it already has. Obesity and Depression
http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/p041081.html
http://www.surgeongeneral.gov/topics/obesity/calltoaction/fact_adolescents.htm
quote:
]Originally posted by beskeptigal
You can advise people to eat right and exercise all you want but research shows very few people are successful at losing weight and keeping it off. That tells us it isn't as simple as 'willpower' despite what some people choose to believe.
Actually, I believe that it is all about will power. People do not have the will power to follow good advice, for a lifetime. As pointed out by others in this thread being healthy is not easy. Too many unhealthy temptations, too easy to just pose for that painting. |
Life is good
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous |
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Siberia
SFN Addict
Brazil
2322 Posts |
Posted - 09/13/2005 : 15:52:06 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by moakley
quote:
]Originally posted by beskeptigal
You can advise people to eat right and exercise all you want but research shows very few people are successful at losing weight and keeping it off. That tells us it isn't as simple as 'willpower' despite what some people choose to believe.
Actually, I believe that it is all about will power. People do not have the will power to follow good advice, for a lifetime. As pointed out by others in this thread being healthy is not easy. Too many unhealthy temptations, too easy to just pose for that painting.
Is it truly? How can you know? What if it becomes a compulsion? If they can't quit eating, do they just have low will power or do they have an actual psychological problem that leads them to eat compulsively? Is a smoker a person will low will power, or an addict? Why is it different for food - the bad type of it? What about the people who eat a full diet (as in, don't rely on fast food only to make them fat) but still get fat anyway (for eating too much of everything)? |
"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa
"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 09/13/2005 : 16:55:40 [Permalink]
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Subjectmatter wrote I don't know if I want to call it an epidemic, but I will call it disgusting.
Is it so hard to imagine that some people would rather be overweight than have to totally change their lifestyle, and that there is nothing unethical or gross about that choice?
Liz W. wrote: If we don't find a way to separate the problem from the stigma, any process used to determine which children are at risk will cause emotional problems.
Amen. The social stigma against fat in the US is at least as harmful (though I suspect it is even more harmful) than the actual obesity. Some example that just come to mind from personal experience:
-A good friend of mine broke up with his girlfriend after she gained a bunch of weight, NOT because he found her physically repulsive, but because he was repulsed by her crushingly low self-esteem.
-Similarly, a friend of mine gained 15 pounds, and again, her boyfriend actually found her accentuated curves more attractive, but found her less attractive overall because she constantly displayed insecurities about her weight.
-A good friend of mine admitted to me that he often looks in the mirror and desires to hurt himself because he thinks he's too fat. He has also gone into rages over his appearance (based purely on weight) and destroyed things.
-An ex of mine thinks full-figured woman are hot but he won't date them because he says “They're all insecure. You can tell by the way they dress – all blocky and shit. They don't try to show off their curves at all.”
-My old roomate's mom is very overweight, and she once came into our place of work, and before our co-workers realized it was his mom, they snickered to each other and referred to her as “Jabba the Hut”.
-Another friend of mine strongly suspects that she's failed to get jobs before because the interviewer found her repulsive. (She is quite obese.) Her attitude about it is to shrug and accept that that's just the way people are.
OK, I'm done with my list of examples. Sorry if it was tiring, but I'm so sick of people complaining about obesity while remaining seemingly blind to the fact that the stigma hurts peoples' relationships, careers and self-esteem.
My solution:
It's an established fact that poor people higher instances of obesity than middle class and rich people. So taxing certain foods, fine whatever, but how about government subsidies for healthy meals for those on welfare and the homeless? Most food that is cheap and also slightly appetizing is junk food.
For the kids – I posted a study here a while ago that showed that poor kids and kids from broken homes far and away tend to be more overweight because they tend to be depressed and less involved with sports and other extra-curricular activities. So, how about we overhaul Children's Services in the united states, actually hire enough social workers and pay them decent wages, and make promoting good health through enjoyable activities part of the system?
Also, how about structuring our public schools so that they ALL provide adequate opportunities to play a variety of sports (instead of allowing failed levies in some states to force schools to charge poor kids for uniforms and equipment) and funding other after school fun physical activities. How about our public schools providing lunches that are actually healthy and not having soda and candy vending machines everywhere.
As for adults, how about accepting that it is their choice and responsibility (unless somehow economics prevents them from being able to change their lifestyle), and if they would rather be overweight than make the huge life change necessary to lose that weight, how about we stop calling them “disgusting” and see them for the people with dignity that they are?
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"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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Dry_vby
Skeptic Friend
Australia
249 Posts |
Posted - 09/13/2005 : 17:21:36 [Permalink]
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Eating leads to weight gain which leads to low self esteem which leads to eating which leads to weight gain which leads to low self esteem which leads to eating.....
This is a psychological as much as a pysiological problem and needs to be addressed on both fronts.
This, to me, is another example of the malais in western society that leads to overconsumption in general, regardless of its effects on others or ones self.
Another manifestation of the selfishness and over indulgence of people in general.
Yes, I beleive it is can be considered an epedemic.
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"I'll go along with the charade
Until I can think my way out.
I know it was all a big joke
Whatever it was about."
Bob Dylan
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 09/13/2005 : 17:59:34 [Permalink]
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Dry_vby, I find your analysis simplistic to the point of being dehumanizing.
Weight gain is caused by a variety of factors, not just eating. Not everyone responds to lowered self-esteem by eating more. Not everyone who is overweight has a psychological problem that is connected to their overweightness, and how serious the pysiological problem is varies widely (example: my grandmother, who was overweight her whole life, died at the age of 75 of blood cancer. I think it's fair to say that her being obese wasn't a problem) To generalize weight gain in our society as a "manifestation of selfishness and over indulgence" is insulting to all overweight people who are not in fact selfish and over-indulgent. (You going to repeat that statement to all the fat social workers who make 25K a year while working 50 hours a week?) Saying that only strengthens the stigma against fat by condemning it in a fresh way. Calling it an epidemic does the same thing. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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