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Randy
SFN Regular
USA
1990 Posts |
 Posted - 06/04/2001 : 13:18:32 [Permalink]
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Interesting little story on fossil bone discoveries around the
Abilene, Texas area,... my hometown, - commonly known as the "Belt buckle
of the Bible-belt".
Knowing that phrase helps to explain the aritcle's last paragraph.
Abilene is definetly la-la land in this reguard!
http://www.texnews.com/1998/2001/local/bones0604.html
Below is a letter to the editor I sent in this morning about the article:
===========================================
A very interesting story, that is until the last paragraph. It made me think of this joke (re-worded!), which rings very true:
"A Geologist and a Creation-Scientist are debating the age of the earth. After an hour of hearing his points ferreted out with science any eleventh grade high school student could understand, the Creation-Scientist finally says "You're like a blind man looking for a black cat in a dark room that isn't there!."
The Geologist thinks for a second and says, "You too are like a blind man looking for a black cat in a dark room that isn't there. The only difference is, you've found it."
I find it quite dis-heartening that Joe Taylor, a "artist" and admitted Creation-Scientist, is heading the excavation. These important discoveries should have a science-minded archeologist at the sites for accurate scientific assessment.
Mr. Taylor's comments of the geologic age of the earth runs in direct conflict with all modern scientific fact and theory.
This is similar to a Flat Earther's caliber of "evidence" against the planet Earth being not a globe, but a world with four corners.
Randy Mallon (CM)
**********
Austin, Texas
Edited by - Randy on 06/04/2001 13:21:09 |
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Megan
Skeptic Friend
USA
163 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2001 : 13:19:23 [Permalink]
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Where do you guys come up with this stuff anyway??
-Megan-
I only do what the voices in my head tell me to do. |
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Trish
SFN Addict
USA
2102 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2001 : 14:29:25 [Permalink]
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quote:
They were shipped off to the Denver Museum of Nature and Science where they are on display. Just last month, a duplicate life-size skeleton of the Lone Wolf Creek bison was put on display at the Colorado City museum
At least they put the bones in a museum that explains vestigial bones to kids in support of evolution! Was down there a couple week ago, saw your Bison bones.
Megan, find a good search engine *google* *altavista* *msn* *yahoo* or try www.search.com that leads to bunches of search engines on the same sight. plug in a word and hit GO!
Check local news sights, they have stories that aren't always published or broadcast.
He's YOUR god, they're YOUR rules, YOU burn in hell! |
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Lisa
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2001 : 14:44:11 [Permalink]
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I can't believe a guy like this would head the invesigation either. Okay, he believes the earth is 6,000 years old, right? As the guy heading this thing up, what does he do with evidence that runs contradictory to his beliefs? Just in my experience, the fundie creationists aren't the most honest people around. Maybe I'm being unduly paranoid, but I'd hate for evidence to be altered, ignored or destroyed to shoehorn it into some established dogma.
Lisa
Chaos...Confusion...Destruction...My Work Here Is Done |
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Randy
SFN Regular
USA
1990 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2001 : 16:34:51 [Permalink]
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quote:
I can't believe a guy like this would head the investigation either. Okay, he believes the earth is 6,000 years old, right? As the guy heading this thing up, what does he do with evidence that runs contradictory to his beliefs? Just in my experience, the fundie creationists aren't the most honest people around. Maybe I'm being unduly paranoid, but I'd hate for evidence to be altered, ignored or destroyed to shoehorn it into some established dogma.
Lisa
Chaos...Confusion...Destruction...My Work Here Is Done
My guess Lisa, is that there's a fair number of these creation-scientists out there. They collect these fossils, probably in unprofessional ways, and keep them for themselves. The only knowledge shared is their junk-science claims of it,...whatever is in alignment with their religious teachings. All it takes is to find a outcropping or location of fossils, obtain dig and ownership rights. You can do that. I can do that. I know of no laws, except on governmental lands, that prohibit collection of artifacts.
More to your question,... Creationist overlook ANY and all evidences that run against their claim. This Joe character already is on record with completely denying modern science in regards to earth age. He's a crack-pot in my book. His comment stems from one of the most moronic parts of bybull fairy tales.
You are correct with saying fundies aren't the most honest people around, especially in the cases where the religionists are attempting science. That's nothing less than trying to mix oil and water. By definition, the fundies will not allow all collected evidences into the data released.
It's very easy for creationist because their non-use of science allows them to make any claim they want to make upon their findings.
The truth be damned.
The true road of science is not dependant upon preconceived end results. The creationists are in complete exclusion of any facts that are in disagreement with their
religion.
They have no interests in true fact finding.
And what is scary to me are states like Kansas, Michigan, Arkansas, Texas and others that have had, or do have agendas to displace evolution science in the classrooms and inject religious creationist doctrine.
A interesting quote I came across sometime ago went something like this...
"The creationist can teach their creation tales in classrooms, when the science of evolution can be instructed from the pulpits in their churches."
I think modern science and thinking is a direct threat to fundies, mainly with the battlegrounds that they have chosen, i.e. evolution, big bang. In their world it's completly up to them to pick and choose what evidences science hands them. Fundies are so diluted that they willingly accept non-science evidences as real and true.
One way to look at it is in comparison with the Apollo hoax-heads. They have no interests with the science of evidence,...just only their pre-conceived notions.
Onward, thru the fog.... |
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Trish
SFN Addict
USA
2102 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2001 : 18:12:00 [Permalink]
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quote:
And what is scary to me are states like Kansas, Michigan, Arkansas, Texas and others that have had, or do have agendas to displace evolution science in the classrooms and inject religious creationist doctrine.
Well reasoned Randy...
I find this scary as well. First if you teach *creation* myth in the class room many kids may not follow that particular doctrine. I have a bybull at home that has two different stories of xian creation in it at home. What more is there to say about creation anyway than that gawd made the earth 6000 years ago and the earth is flat with a dome covering it?
I seriously fear for the future of my daughter in this type of educational environment. I know I can reach out and educate her from home via the internet. But she'd be forced into listening to/learning this nonsense at school.
It is religious dogma, if they want their kids to believe that garbage that's their prerogative. Maybe they need to request their child not be taught evolution for religious reasons, I could respect that option.
Unfortunately, that would result in more uneducated individuals propogating. 
He's YOUR god, they're YOUR rules, YOU burn in hell! |
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Rift
Skeptic Friend
USA
333 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2001 : 22:46:28 [Permalink]
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quote:
I seriously fear for the future of my daughter in this type of educational environment. I know I can reach out and educate her from home via the internet. But
she'd be forced into listening to/learning this nonsense at school.
It is religious dogma, if they want their kids to believe that garbage that's their prerogative. Maybe they need to request their child not be taught evolution for religious reasons, I could respect that option.
I'm not sure about CO but here in Kansas the creationists attempt at taking over the Board of Education backfired HORRIBLY. muuuuaaaaahhhhhaaahhhh
Not only was there talk of disbanding it completely, Not only did creationists get booted out the next election, not only did communities sat up and took notice and actually wondered what was going on in the schools... but also I heard something from creationists I never heard before, and I heard it several times in letters to the editor in local papers.
It usually went something like this "I don't believe in evolution, but science uses it and if my kid is going to get a good job they need to learn it". I heard it several times, and other people I've talked to said that is a strong feeling amoung the creationists in Kansas now. It has me totally flummexed too, lol. But who cares why they believe that, i'm just glad they do. :)
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Trish
SFN Addict
USA
2102 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2001 : 22:58:49 [Permalink]
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Rift:
Colorado is strange! It votes primarily republican on national issues but primarily democrat on local issues. Go figure that...
The majority of registered voters in CO are Independent or Non Affiliated. Guess less gov but let's not go overboard. We passed the medical marjiuana law and we passed the make my day law and we voted down the gay rights law. If that tells you anything.
There are a few fundies, particularly in the back country but folks out here are live and let live kind of people. Let me live my life in peace and quiet and I'll let you live. No show for creationism but when I graduate from school I'm probably going to have to move to TX or AZ to stay in the southwest. TX is a primarily fundie state and AZ, I think, has a similar type of paradox as CO but leans more republican than CO. Which could mean it becomes an issue. I damn sure ain't moving to NY or CA which are my other options.
He's YOUR god, they're YOUR rules, YOU burn in hell! |
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bestonnet_00
Skeptic Friend
Australia
358 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2001 : 03:05:00 [Permalink]
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N2 is pretty inert, but with temperatures of 3000oC it could be combined reacted with 3H2, with an Iron catalyst it could go down to 500oC and with some biological enzymes can be done at room temperature.
Ammonia is likely to have formed on earth during the formation of the earth, and was in fact used along with Methane, Hydrogen and Water in the experiments that created all those amino acids.
N2, H2, CO2, and H2O could have been used, but it would have taken longer and been a bit harder.
But the environment may have been extreme enough and with enough time for it to happen.
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Maddog
New Member
United Kingdom
5 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2001 : 03:27:24 [Permalink]
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What is so shocking about a person who believes in God, believing in Evolution?
As I have been told many times over, common ancestry is not the same as Evolution.
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Rift
Skeptic Friend
USA
333 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2001 : 05:31:02 [Permalink]
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quote:
What is so shocking about a person who believes in God, believing in Evolution?
Absolutely nothing :) Most christians (at least officially) do. All the christians I know personally do... of course I may have something to do with that. And I'm not so sure I don't believe in god , although my view of a god wouldn't fit most people's definition of god :P
quote:
As I have been told many times over, common ancestry is not the same as Evolution.
Okay, you lose me here. I guess there could be other theories as to why donkies and horses can interbreed, but that simple fact is enough 'proof' of evolution for me. (although there is HEAPS more evidence of course) The fact that they were once the same spiecies and changed into two IS evolution, nearly the definition of it.
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Mespo_man
Skeptic Friend
USA
312 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2001 : 09:08:52 [Permalink]
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Backing up a bit to the fossils thingy...
I believe that there is just as much, if not more, of a threat from worshipers of Mammon than there is from Fundys. Fossils are Big Business. How many bones are sitting in drawers and basements of private homes waiting for the highest bidder? How much collective knowledge has been frustrated because colleges and universities don't have the bucks to pay the "ransom" demanded by private collectors?
You can guage the relative value of fossils today by examining local, state and Federal police blotters. The incidents of "fossil theft" are increasing in direct proportion to the perceived value of those ancient rocks. And knowledge is the loser.
(:raig |
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Tokyodreamer
SFN Regular
USA
1447 Posts |
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Randy
SFN Regular
USA
1990 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2001 : 10:25:34 [Permalink]
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Trish:
quote:
I seriously fear for the future of my daughter in this type of educational environment. I know I can reach out and educate her from home via the internet. But
she'd be forced into listening to/learning this nonsense at school.
It is religious dogma, if they want their kids to believe that garbage that's their prerogative. Maybe they need to request their child not be taught evolution for religious reasons, I could respect that option.
That's what home schooling/private schools are for. At public schools?....the "schlumk" stops here. (schlumk meaning study of religious fairy tales on par with science.)
Rift:
quote:
I'm not sure about CO but here in Kansas the creationists attempt at taking over the Board of Education backfired HORRIBLY. muuuuaaaaahhhhhaaahhhh
The creationists _did_ manage to get majority rule for a while in the Kansas Board of Education. That was scary has hell to me. But like you say, it backfired.
Now, the science curriculum is stronger than ever. (insert sound of tremedous sigh of relief here.)
A few months ago, after the new Kansas Board of Education elevated science back into their classrooms, I came across the e addresses of the consenting board members. I sent them each this note of support:
"I appreciate the good work on returning the teaching of evolution back to your classrooms. I think your actions will help students better understand the science of the world around them and to not have them subjected to the teachings of whatever religious dogma dominates at the time. Thanks again, Randy Mallon Austin, Texas"
I heard back from three of them with a Sue Gamble saying,
(snip)"You will be happy to know that since the vote on February 14, I have received more than 800 messages from around the world, less than 100 have been negative. Thank you for caring. Sincerely,
Sue Gamble"
Just keep in mind that the fundies are everywhere and are actively engaged to push their space pixy adjenda down everyone's throats.
http://www.au.org/
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Randy
SFN Regular
USA
1990 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2001 : 10:42:35 [Permalink]
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Found this ditty a while back from another board.......
"A longtime professor buddy of my dad sent me this. I'm guessing he
wrote it since he tosses in a key reference to Kansas State
University,his employer.
The theory of evaporation and the theory of giraffism
The Kansas Board of Education voted today to eliminate mandatory
teaching of the theory of evaporation from schools across the state.
Most scientists believe that water and other liquids are
spontaneously converted by so-called evaporation into the form of a
gas, and carried off into the atmosphere. This, they say, is the
explanation behind sudden disappearances of water all across the
state. Many non-scientists, however, stand by the widely accepted
theory that a lovable invisible two-headed thirsty blue giraffe named
Clarence is responsible for the disappearances.
The two theories, evaporation and Giraffism, will now be taught on a
more equal footing to school-children across Kansas. Parents are
pleased, saying that Giraffism is easier to understand and far more
comforting to small children. "There's nothing happy about
evaporation," says Frank Nubbins, father of Jason, 6, and Sue Ellen,
4. "Clarence the giraffe is blue, and he's lovable. You can't say
that about evaporation, that's for sure. I love my children."
"Nobody has ever adequately explained evaporation," says Dr. Harold
Thumper, of the Kansas Board of Education. "With evaporation, we're
expected to imagine that water just disappears, all by itself, with no
rhyme or reason. That's ridiculous." Clarence the lovable invisible
two-headed blue giraffe, on the other hand,is always thirsty, an
explanation which is simple and obvious. He has a well-established
presence in children's literature. "Every culture on the planet,"
says Dr. Thumper "has a story about giraffes, or thirstiness, or
lovable blue things. Most of these have happy, happy endings. My
children just love these stories. But I challenge you to find a
single good story about evaporation."
The theory of evaporation is getting a dry reception in academia these
days. At leading universities including Harvard, Stanford, Kansas
State University and MIT, it's impossible to find a single professor
of Evaporation on the faculty. "What's the point?" says Gwen
O'Malley, dean of the Harvard Medical School. "It's not exactly a
good career move to spend your life trying to explain evaporation to
people."
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