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R.Wreck
SFN Regular
USA
1191 Posts |
 Posted - 10/22/2005 : 10:01:59
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Here's a little Halloween treat for you: This website would be hilarious, except this nutcase is serious, which makes it a little scary.
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We Are LOSING The Freedom Of Religion!
The Cause
The cause is an extreme interpretation of the first amendment. The first amendment, the same amendment that guarantees us the freedom of religion, is being used against us.
The first amendment says:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion,
or prohibiting the free exercise thereof...
The first clause says the government cannot establish an official religion. And that's good.
But various court rulings have interpreted the first clause to mean that the government may not promote or give special treatment to any particular religion, either. We can't erect a Nativity scene on the courthouse steps, even if we add a menorah. The government cannot promote any particular religions.
The second clause says they can't stop people from practicing their religion.
The two clauses can be self-contradictory and mutually exclusive. Let's say a group would like to erect a Nativity scene on public property. If the government allows it, they are violating the first clause, but if they prohibit it, they are violating the second clause.
Hmmm, why would a religion NEED to put its stuff on public property? How does not being allowed to infringe on any right?
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It's good that we don't have an official religion. But taking the separation of church and state to extremes has left us with a government that can't even acknowledge the existence of God. Is this what the founding fathers wanted?
Another retroactive mindreader. And last I checked the hypocrites in Congress were still openly praying in the Capitol.
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We are fighting the wrong battles.
Sometimes we get to keep a Ten Commandments plaque on a courthouse because of its historic significance. Some of us say,
“That's good enough. We will take our victories any way we can get them.”
But that is NOT good enough! We don't want to keep a Ten Commandments plaque because of its historic significance in spite of its religious significance. We want to keep it BECAUSE it is religious.
...
And we are not fighting the biggest battle of all, the one battle that really counts. We must get the constitution interpreted correctly. Removing the Ten Commandments interferes with the free exercise of religion.
And how is he going to win this battle? He's got a plan:
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Atheism is indeed a religion. It has no churches, mosques or temples, but that is not important. What is important is that it is a faith, shared by many, who try to convert others to their beliefs.
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It should not be too hard to establish that Atheism's symbol is NOTHING, since that seems to be what Atheists always want to see anyway.
We cannot allow a judge to remove a Nativity scene from the courthouse steps by reasoning that he removed all religious symbols. In the past, the judge would have had no choice. He would have had to remove the Nativity scene. He would remove something, leaving nothing.
But now the judge cannot remove something and leave nothing. Now leaving nothing is leaving something else. We must insist that
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The foundation of morality is to . . . give up pretending to believe that for which there is no evidence, and repeating unintelligible propositions about things beyond the possibliities of knowledge.
T. H. Huxley
The Cattle Prod of Enlightened Compassion
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Siberia
SFN Addict
Brazil
2322 Posts |
 Posted - 10/22/2005 : 10:31:27 [Permalink]
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| I love the bit about educating people in the new order. |
"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa
"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 10/22/2005 : 11:09:59 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Siberia
I love the bit about educating people in the new order.
I too, am most appreciative of that effort. And so is my AK-47.
Ok, let's classify atheism as a religion -- I'm all for it! Once organized, we could hustle funds from the Faith Based Initives the idiot-child administration has come up with, and go to court with a legitimate case if refused on religious grounds.... And we could whine about religious persecution whenever displeased with any regulation limiting us. And so forth.
In short, we could demand all of the perogititves enjoyed by the Christians, et all, without going through any of the bullshit because our faith is based upon nothing. Which, come to think of it, gives it sort of an air of kinship with the rest, does it not? 
Doesn't this nincompoop realize what a can of worms he's proposing to open up? Doesn't he realize that he wants to give us legitimacy where currently we have little or none?
And as for the use and display of the respective symbols of our religions, well, he can piss on mine if doesn't mind me pissing on his... 
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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| Edited by - filthy on 10/22/2005 11:13:04 |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 10/22/2005 : 12:08:12 [Permalink]
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| I imagine there is planned psychology at the top which keeps the lambs in the flock if one is persecuted and fighting the 'cause'. |
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GeeMack
SFN Regular
USA
1093 Posts |
Posted - 10/22/2005 : 13:08:35 [Permalink]
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quote:
The Rules Have Changed...
They can't keep anybody out. They must let everybody in. They must even let in religions you don't like; it's the price you pay for making them let YOURS in, too.
I wonder where on the courthouse steps we should let the Brahmins sacrifice the goats, to the left or right of the nativity scene, in front of or behind the menorah.
And once we squeeze the mottos and slogans of several thousand faith groups on a dollar bill there won't be much room left for George Washington's portrait.
Not much public work will get done while we provide paid days off for federal, state, and municipal employees to honor the two or three major holidays recognized by any of hundreds of religions.
If there are any school days left, they'll start mighty early and end mighty late with all the recitals, prayers, and songs necessary for every faith to have an opportunity to indoctrinate the children. Oh, and that will barely leave time in science class to present every religion's "theory" of the origin of life.
Someone ought to tell this guy, "... it's the price you pay for making them let YOURS in, too." 
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 10/22/2005 : 14:07:18 [Permalink]
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The guy is an idiot, because atheism is already regarded as a religion when it comes to First Amendment legal issues.
Besides which, the IRS isn't the arbiter of what is or is not a religion. If that were true, it'd be... you guessed it... a violation of the First Amendment. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 10/22/2005 : 14:57:24 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
The guy is an idiot, because atheism is already regarded as a religion when it comes to First Amendment legal issues.
Besides which, the IRS isn't the arbiter of what is or is not a religion. If that were true, it'd be... you guessed it... a violation of the First Amendment.
"Typhoid Annie" Coulter doesn't believe in the first Admendmant, and what's worse, neither does a large part of her latest audience.
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Blogged by Brad on 10/21/2005 @ 2:04pm PT...
Coulter Calls for 'Repression of Free Speech', Florida Republicans Applaud!
'Not a big fan of the First Amendment', Says GOP Poster Girl
Republican talking head, author and gadfly, Ann Coulter spoke to an audience of supporters in Gainseville, Florida last night at a fundraiser for the Alachua County Republican Party, who paid...
Republican talking head, author and gadfly, Ann Coulter spoke to an audience of supporters in Gainseville, Florida last night at a fundraiser for the Alachua County Republican Party, who paid $30,000 to have Coulter speak.
According to an article in today's Independent Florida Alligator, Coulter -- who makes her living, in no small part, by enjoying her Free Speech rights under the First Amendment -- pleased the rabid attendees by denigrating the U.S. Constitution...
She also criticized the media for being liberal and Democrats for whining about their rights under the First Amendment.
"They're always accusing us of repressing their speech," she said. "I say let's do it. Let's repress them."
She later added, "Frankly, I'm not a big fan of the First Amendment."
Her statements received applause, and many attendees said they enjoyed her speech, but some added that they think she's somewhat extreme.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 10/22/2005 : 15:12:49 [Permalink]
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| That people who have been so effectively terrorized that they think anyone not exactly like them should be silenced are also afraid of basic civil rights is not particularly surprising. Shrieking cowards, the lot of 'em. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Trish
SFN Addict
USA
2102 Posts |
Posted - 10/22/2005 : 22:01:20 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
The guy is an idiot, because atheism is already regarded as a religion when it comes to First Amendment legal issues.
Besides which, the IRS isn't the arbiter of what is or is not a religion. If that were true, it'd be... you guessed it... a violation of the First Amendment.
It's also officially recognized by the military.
http://www.afrc.af.mil/434arw/EEO/eeopg12.htm
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Religion
When employment policy or rules requires a person to either violate a fundamental precept of his or her religion or to lose an employment opportunity.
Atheists are protected from discrimination because of their sincere lack of religious beliefs.
An employer is required to make reasonable accommodation to the religious needs of employees and job applicants unless to do so would create an undue hardship.
You can put it on your ID tags, but it's a pain to convince someone that it really is ok to have atheist there. |
...no one has ever found a 4.5 billion year old stone artifact (at the right geological stratum) with the words "Made by God."
No Sense of Obligation by Matt Young
"Say what you will about the sweet miracle of unquestioning faith. I consider the capacity for it terrifying and vile!"
Mother Night by Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.
They (Women Marines) don't have a nickname, and they don't need one. They get their basic training in a Marine atmosphere, at a Marine Post. They inherit the traditions of the Marines. They are Marines.
LtGen Thomas Holcomb, USMC
Commandant of the Marine Corps, 1943
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 10/24/2005 : 06:42:57 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Siberia
I love the bit about educating people in the new order.
And yet, one does find these kinds of people railing against the Freemasons and the New World Order.
Hmmmmm..... |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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