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GeeMack
SFN Regular

USA
1093 Posts

Posted - 10/28/2005 :  10:09:29  Show Profile Send GeeMack a Private Message
It's official...
quote:
Lewis Libby Indicted...

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Vice President Dick Cheney's chief of staff, Lewis Libby, was charged with perjury, obstruction of justice and making false statements in a five-count indictment returned on Friday by a grand jury investigating the leak of a covert CIA operative's identity.
A little more about "Scooter" Libby...
quote:
Libby Is Quiet Force Who Helped Shape Iraq Policy...

Libby is known for a reluctance to being quoted in the press, but his private conversations with reporters caught the interest of prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald, lead investigator of the leak of covert CIA operative Valerie Plame's identity.

Plame's diplomat husband, Joseph Wilson, accused the Bush administration of outing his wife to discredit him for accusing the administration of twisting intelligence to justify the Iraq war in a New York Times opinion piece on July 6, 2003.
** edited to add second link

Edited by - GeeMack on 10/28/2005 10:18:25

pleco
SFN Addict

USA
2998 Posts

Posted - 10/28/2005 :  10:48:18   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit pleco's Homepage Send pleco a Private Message
I wonder how high up the ladder they will go...I wonder how loyal these people are...

by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart.
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie

USA
4826 Posts

Posted - 10/28/2005 :  10:50:07   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Valiant Dancer's Homepage Send Valiant Dancer a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by pleco

I wonder how high up the ladder they will go...I wonder how loyal these people are...



From what I hear, they don't have a J. Gordon Liddy. Put one in jail and he'll sing like a birdie.

Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils

Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 10/28/2005 :  11:07:59   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message
Yes -- break out the good booze!

I wonder, and this is strictly a speculation on my part, if Rove remains unindicted in order to keep the case open and active, and perhaps seine up more fish, and bigger ones. Cheney, perhaps, and, to wishfully dream, mayhaps his confused and ethicly-challenged, little sock-puppet with him.....


"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 10/28/2005 :  12:02:01   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message
Found this at Raw Story;
quote:
Fitzgerald expands probe, believes he can get Rove on more serious charges, lawyers say
Jason Leopold


Print This | Email This


In one of the boldest moves yet in the 22-month investigation into the outing of a covert CIA agent to a handful of top reporters covering the White House, Special Prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald is extending his probe and pursuing much more serious charges against senior White House officials, specifically President Bush's Deputy Chief of Staff Karl Rove, lawyers directly involved in the case told RAW STORY Friday.

While many people were left confused by news reports that said Rove wouldn't be indicted Friday, the lawyers said that Rove remains under intense scrutiny and added that Fitzgerald is betting on the fact that he can secure an indictment against Rove on charges of perjury, obstruction of justice, the misuse of classified information, and possibly other charges, as early as next week.

“This investigation is not yet over,” one of the lawyers in the case said. “You must keep in mind that people like Mr. Rove are still under investigation. Rather than securing an indictment on perjury charges against Mr. Rove Mr. Fitzgerald strongly believes he can convince the grand jury that he broke other laws.”

The lawyers said that in the past month Fitzgerald has obtained explosive information in the case that has enabled him to pursue broader charges such as conspiracy, and civil rights violations against targets like Rove. Specifically, the lawyers said Fitzgerald is focusing on phony intelligence documents that led to the outing of Valerie Plame Wilson's identity: the documents that claimed Iraq was attempting to purchase yellow-cake uranium from Niger.


I think that this is only beginning to get interesting.


"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard

USA
4574 Posts

Posted - 10/28/2005 :  14:28:08   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send H. Humbert a Private Message
Bush, Rove, Cheney, and that whole cadre decided long ago that Libby would have to take the fall on this. (What do you think they were doing with all that time Miller spent sitting in jail? Going over their options and getting their stories straight.) Libby gave Miller permission to speak only after they had their game plan set. He will say he acted alone, spare everyone else, and then wait for Bush to pardon him at the end of his term.

As much I as wish this will lead to bigger fish, I just don't see any more ending up in the frying pan.


"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes

"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman

"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie
Edited by - H. Humbert on 10/28/2005 14:31:26
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Stargirl
Skeptic Friend

USA
94 Posts

Posted - 10/28/2005 :  14:46:28   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Stargirl a Private Message
Driving in to work this morning I heard Christy Harvey from The Center for American Progress say on Air America radio that Special Prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald just sign a two years lease for office space in Washington DC. If true it could mean that he does plan on going after more fish.

Christy also said, (in her opinion) that the reason Fitzgerald didn't indict Rove was because that would essentially close the book on the investigation into Rove's wrongdoing and Fitzgerald probably wasn't ready to do that.

After watching the Republicans go after Clinton for lying about getting a blow-job in the oval office it's great to see someone investigating and issuing indictments for things that really matter.


Edited to add the following.
Apparently the information about Fitzgerald leasing more office space in Washington was wrong and has been retracted by the original source.


If God did not exist, it would be necessary to invent him - Voltaire
Edited by - Stargirl on 10/28/2005 16:20:33
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 10/28/2005 :  19:40:32   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by H. Humbert

Bush, Rove, Cheney, and that whole cadre decided long ago that Libby would have to take the fall on this. (What do you think they were doing with all that time Miller spent sitting in jail? Going over their options and getting their stories straight.) Libby gave Miller permission to speak only after they had their game plan set. He will say he acted alone, spare everyone else, and then wait for Bush to pardon him at the end of his term.

As much I as wish this will lead to bigger fish, I just don't see any more ending up in the frying pan.



I dunno, Double H. That reads good and in all truth, I've turned similar over in my mind a time or two. But I'm not quite ready to buy into it yet.

That Libby, if convicted, will get a pardon, maybe after a few months or perhaps weeks in Club Fed, is pretty much a given.

I will wait and see what happens. Fitzgerald, I think, has something going and he's very damned good at what he does. Might be that Shit-for-brains will have to hand out more pardons.

I too am struck by the difference between Clinton's minor (and private) misdeeds and these very real, criminal acts. And not to mention the hypocratcy of members of congress. Kay Hutchinson is a prime example.



In the meantime, Jailhouse Judy has apparently whored herself out of a job and any sembelence of credability, a bit of comeuppance I find most refreshing.


"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 10/29/2005 :  04:49:21   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message
Just got back from a visit to FreeRepublic. The freepers are speculating like three-card monte players over this with all of the expected comparisons to the Clinton impeachment debacle.
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

To: All
You know...i was thinking about all this..these
indictments, Mr Libbys not guilty plea, the
inevitable trial that the Dims are slathering for..
that Joe Wilson is doing a happy dance over..
as they all contemplate the show trial; they
dream of...Rove on the witness stamd,..maybe Cheney..
who knows..even Bush himself! the rhapsodise about...

and the expression: "Be careful what you wish for!"
comes to mind...Remember, everything so far, that
has been presented..has all been from a prosecutorial/persecutional POV...In the Trial
Libby, and his lawyers, will be able to present
an opposing point of view, and be able to Supeona
their *own* list of witnesses, friendly and hostile.
Does anyone, upon thinking about it, doubt that
Joe Wilson, and Valerie Plame, will find themselves
being handed supeonas, and under oath in from of
a *criminal* court? That Plame's superiors(s) aren't
facing supeonas? That witnesses from Niger & the UK
may be flown in to testify as to the extent of
Wilsons "investgation", and the UK info on the
Yellowcake? That those people who knew of Plames
CIA status, her possible exposure over 5 yrs ago
to foriegn Intelligence agencies brought out??...
The connections between Wilson, Plame and numerous
"stars" in the Democrat Party? Their political
donations? The friction between the Administation
and the CIA, who are supposed to serve at the
pleasure of the President???

Yes..There are serious ramifications for those
that would attack the presidents abilty to
prosecute a war, durng a time of war.

And:
quote:
From the beginning of all of this, my gut tells me that Plame and Wilson orchestrated the "outing."

There were and are WMD in Iraq, most moved to Syria while the Democrats insisted GWB waste valuable time appealing to the U.N.

Just as the forged Texas National Guard document poisoned the well for the Dem/Libs to continue to crucify GWB's youth, a forged yellowcake document poisoned the well, but in this case to discredit the truth. You can bet your ass Iraq was looking to build nukes.

The part of the Big Picture I don't get is why the GWB Administration made retractions, and hardly defended itself.

The thread makes for an interesting and amusing, if not particularly credible, read. I must confess though, that I didn't read the whole thing. It's pretty long, as might be expected.

I've a feeling that they'll get even more interesting and less credible as time and rulings pass... Unless, of course, Fitzgerald really is full of shit, which thus far doesn't seem likely.

The freepers are simply adorable when they get excited; like baby crocodiles. A pity I got banned some years back....


"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

Edited by - filthy on 10/29/2005 05:03:28
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 10/30/2005 :  04:31:48   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message
Can't resist tossing this in:



And yes, I am dancing on the beginning of this administration's grave...


"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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GeeMack
SFN Regular

USA
1093 Posts

Posted - 10/30/2005 :  16:27:24   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send GeeMack a Private Message
Among multitudes of other repercussions, I imagine Joseph Wilson and Valerie Plame will be able to pursue a pretty profitable civil suit against Scooter Libby, and probably any others who are shown to be actively responsible for wrecking Valerie's career.
quote:
Our 27 Months of Hell (by Joseph C. Wilson IV)...

After the two-year smear campaign orchestrated by senior officials in the Bush White House against my wife and me, it is tempting to feel vindicated by Friday's indictment of the vice president's chief of staff, I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby.

Between us, Valerie and I have served the United States for nearly 43 years. I was President George H.W. Bush's acting ambassador to Iraq in the run-up to the Persian Gulf War, and I served as ambassador to two African nations for him and President Clinton. Valerie worked undercover for the CIA in several overseas assignments and in areas related to terrorism and weapons of mass destruction.

But on July 14, 2003, our lives were irrevocably changed. That was the day columnist Robert Novak identified Valerie as an operative, divulging a secret that had been known only to me, her parents and her brother.
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GeeMack
SFN Regular

USA
1093 Posts

Posted - 11/02/2005 :  08:01:26   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send GeeMack a Private Message
Scooter Libby steps aside and everyone else moves ahead one space on the playing board. Meet Dick Cheney's new national security adviser, John Hannah. He is apparently one of the White House insiders who helped shuttle the false information that was used to justify George W. Bush's campaign of terror against the citizens of Iraq.

And meet David Addington, Dick Cheney's new chief of staff. He is on record as one of the legal advisers who supported violating the Geneva Conventions by using torture against those suspected of opposing George W. Bush's occupation of Iraq. These guys just aren't going to be happy until they've done as much damage to the United States as they can possibly manage.
quote:
New Cheney Aide Tied to False Iraq Reports...

Vice President Dick Cheney replaced I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby as his national-security adviser on Monday with an aide [John Hannah] identified by a former Iraqi exile group as the White House official to whom it fed information on Iraq that turned out to be erroneous.

The Bush administration relied on some of the information from the Iraqi National Congress (INC) to argue that Saddam Hussein had to be ousted before he could give banned biological or chemical weapons to al-Qaida for strikes on the United States.

But no such weapons were discovered after the March 2003 invasion, and U.S. intelligence agencies and the independent commission on the Sept. 11 attacks found no evidence of operational cooperation between Iraq and al-Qaida.

[...]

The White House also announced that David S. Addington, who's been Cheney's legal counsel, would assume Libby's duties as chief of staff. Like Hannah, Addington has played a quiet, though influential, role in the vice president's office.

Addington reportedly helped draft an opinion by then-White House counsel Alberto Gonzales stating that the Geneva Conventions didn't apply to some detainees in the war on terrorism.

"This was somebody who worked very hard to make sure the advice of senior military officials and national-security professionals on the question of interrogation policies was ignored," said Tom Malinowski, Washington director of Human Rights Watch. "The result was an unmitigated disaster for the United States."
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GeeMack
SFN Regular

USA
1093 Posts

Posted - 11/02/2005 :  21:01:12   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send GeeMack a Private Message
The implications of Judy Miller's initial refusal to honor her subpoena to testify in front of the grand jury run pretty deep.
quote:
The Coverup Worked...

No one really noticed, but Patrick Fitzgerald made an unassailable point last week about the timing of the indictment that his CIA leak investigation has produced so far.

"I would have wanted nothing better," he said, "that when the subpoenas were issued in August of 2004, witnesses testified then, and we would have been here in October of 2004 instead of October of 2005."

Give or take a nuance and some garbled syntax, the prosecutor was in effect showing that the quixotic pursuit of a nonexistent right or privilege by some news organizations is one reason President Bush was reelected last year.
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vrwc
New Member

47 Posts

Posted - 11/06/2005 :  10:58:51   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send vrwc a Private Message
Enjoy the fantasy.Over 2 years investigation and the alleged crime being investigated hasn't been solved.Libby isn't even accused of it.
Perpetual investigations are a poor substitute for a political agenda.Or is the left just afraid to tell the public what their agenda really is? vrwc





















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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 11/06/2005 :  12:25:10   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by vrwc

Enjoy the fantasy.Over 2 years investigation and the alleged crime being investigated hasn't been solved.Libby isn't even accused of it.
Perpetual investigations are a poor substitute for a political agenda.Or is the left just afraid to tell the public what their agenda really is? vrwc


Tell that to Ken Starr....





"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

Edited by - filthy on 11/06/2005 12:29:10
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vrwc
New Member

47 Posts

Posted - 11/06/2005 :  12:56:20   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send vrwc a Private Message
Filthy

While we're bring up names from the past why not:
John Huang
James Riady
Mochtar Riady
Charlie Trie
Loral and Hughes corporations (Chinese missles work a lot better now
don't they?) vrwc
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