|
|
|
Trish
SFN Addict
USA
2102 Posts |
 Posted - 11/29/2001 : 12:45:10 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Z-man, when you're right you're right.
My kids still love me.
Why I haven't said anything after the first few pages.
It is by the goodness of God that in our country we have those three unspeakably precious things: freedom of speech, freedom of conscience, and the prudence never to practice either of them. -Mark Twain |
 |
|
|
PhDreamer
SFN Regular
USA
925 Posts |
Posted - 11/29/2001 : 12:59:15 [Permalink]
|
quote:
The U.S. is a member of the U.N. and has agreed to uphold the UN charter. It is attacking a country without negotiating and without regard for the UN charter. Just because you make up a bunch of reasons why it really isn't a country, and it really isn't attacking a country without negotiating does not make it true. It is attacking a country without negotiating. It is attacking a country without regard for the UN or for international law, or for the well-being of the captive population of Afghanistan.
I reject your contention that the US did not engage in negotiation before the attack. And I reject the forthcoming contention that all the US did was make demands. Negotiation does not equal compromise. Compromise is a sufficient condition but not a necessary condition. The Taliban was making demands just as well. As I recall, the US was willing to have bin Laden tried in International court.
quote:
The U.S. does not want international law. Fine. They can attack and murder and torture whoever they want. Fine. When it comes to you being the one tortured and murdered don't cry to me about law or what's right.
Actually, you seem to think that international law requires that all affected parties forget they are homo sapiens sapiens and discuss the whole thing over cappuccino. Your attempt to create a dichotomy is disingenuous. The situation is emphatically not, "either we all follow international law as I interpret it or we can all attack each other at will."
Adventure? Excitement? A Jedi craves not these things. - Silent Bob |
|
|
|
PhDreamer
SFN Regular
USA
925 Posts |
Posted - 11/29/2001 : 13:00:29 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Hopefully you're quoting yourself here.
quote:
'evil US propaganda machine'
I'm not quoting anyone. I was obviously hyperbolizing, and I offset with single quotes to distinguish from an actual quote.
Adventure? Excitement? A Jedi craves not these things. - Silent Bob |
|
|
|
Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 11/29/2001 : 13:25:40 [Permalink]
|
Interesting points. I'll have to give them some thought.
Going back to Iraq, there is some indication that Iraq was willing to back off if they were given a chance to save face. They wanted to keep it an Arab problem, etc. May have been smoke, may not be true, I don't know. If this kind of thing were true, it sure would seem to be better to give a little than kill a bunch of people and cause more hard feelings. While negotiation doesn't require giving, in practice, it really doesn't exist unless there is some leeway given. BUSH I said "No Negotiations" and I don't think anyone can argue that there were any negotiations there. He wanted war, he did not want peace for any reason.
There was really no attempt at giving anyone a chance to save face here, either. Not a smart move. Even if it were legal, this is a dumb thing to do all the way around. Yes, some good might come of it, but some nasty guy a long time ago made the trains run on time too.
quote:
I reject your contention that the US did not engage in negotiation before the attack. And I reject the forthcoming contention that all the US did was make demands. Negotiation does not equal compromise. Compromise is a sufficient condition but not a necessary condition. The Taliban was making demands just as well. As I recall, the US was willing to have bin Laden tried in International court.
quote:
The U.S. does not want international law. Fine. They can attack and murder and torture whoever they want. Fine. When it comes to you being the one tortured and murdered don't cry to me about law or what's right.
Actually, you seem to think that international law requires that all affected parties forget they are homo sapiens sapiens and discuss the whole thing over cappuccino. Your attempt to create a dichotomy is disingenuous. The situation is emphatically not, "either we all follow international law as I interpret it or we can all attack each other at will."
Adventure? Excitement? A Jedi craves not these things. - Silent Bob
Lisa Lisa, sad Lisa Lisa - Cat Stevens |
|
|
|
Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2001 : 09:05:55 [Permalink]
|
"Imagine the vanity in thinking that your enemy can do more damage to you than your enmity."
"St." Augustine of Hippo.
quote:
Are Skeptic Friends becoming Skeptic Enemies?
Whatever...
Sad...
ljbrs 
*Nothing is more damaging to a new truth than an old error.* Goethe
Lisa Lisa, sad Lisa Lisa - Cat Stevens |
|
|
|
@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 12/05/2001 : 18:14:24 [Permalink]
|
I think it's very important in political discussions(or religious for that matter) to not take anything personally hard though that might be. I post on political subjects more than others because it is a subject of great fascination to me and I am prepared for the heated discussions but I definately don't consider people that disagree with me to be enemies. That is the stuff civil war is made from and I know just enough about history to know how useless that is.
@tomic
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law! |
|
|
|
ljbrs
SFN Regular
USA
842 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2001 : 16:02:56 [Permalink]
|
atomic:
You, yourself, never deal in ad hominems. You give the straight facts and only attack ideas, not individuals. I sometimes get tired of the debasing, rather than debating. I think, perhaps, that 9/11 has bothered many people.
ljbrs   
"The only real way to reconcile science and religion is to set up something that is not science and something that is not religion." (H.L. Mencken) |
|
|
 |
|
Topic Locked
