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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 11/10/2005 : 14:04:24 [Permalink]
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quote:
This was a good link, Thanks. I do not mean to be too simplistic or difficult but they are still both mosquitoes correct?
They are indeed, still mosquitos.
However, the population can no longer breed successfully with any outside that population, therefore outside genetic material cannot be introduced. Left in isolation long enough -- the London subway hasn't existed for but a very brief time -- they could become something other than mosquitos.
Then we'd have to say: "Well, they're still insects...." Then on to arthropods, and so forth. 
Evolution works best in pocket populations. These mosquitos are a prime example. They further show that few if any evoultionary ancestories are liniar.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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pleco
SFN Addict
USA
2998 Posts |
Posted - 11/10/2005 : 14:20:38 [Permalink]
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quote:
The Reverend Pat Robertson says Pennsylvanians who voted members of the Dover Area school board out of office for supporting "intelligent design" rejected God as well.
Eight school board members who wanted high school biology students to be told that intelligent design is an alternative to evolution lost their re-election bids Tuesday.
On Thursday's broadcast of "The 700 Club," Robertson told Dover residents, "If there is a disaster in your area, don't turn to God." The founder of the Christian Broadcasting Network explained, "You just voted God out of your city."
Gotta love Pat. Hopefully this quote will be used against the Creationists in further discussion when the "id"'ers claim not be injecting religion.
I didn't know that god obeys the majority in a vote in a city...seems rather odd? |
by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart. |
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| Edited by - pleco on 11/10/2005 14:22:30 |
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GeeMack
SFN Regular
USA
1093 Posts |
Posted - 11/10/2005 : 14:57:38 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Robb...
Thanks. I do not mean to be too simplistic or difficult but they are still both mosquitoes correct?
Yes, they are both mosquitos in every bit the same way as Homo sapien, H. erectus, and nearly a dozen other hominin species are all members of the genus Homo, or what we might call humans. Of course the London Subway Mosquito, Culex molestus, and its above ground ancestor, C. pipiens, both still survive, whereas only a single species of the Homo genus has escaped extinction.
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furshur
SFN Regular
USA
1536 Posts |
Posted - 11/10/2005 : 15:08:48 [Permalink]
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quote:
The Reverend Pat Robertson says Pennsylvanians who voted members of the Dover Area school board out of office for supporting "intelligent design" rejected God as well.
Eight school board members who wanted high school biology students to be told that intelligent design is an alternative to evolution lost their re-election bids Tuesday.
On Thursday's broadcast of "The 700 Club," Robertson told Dover residents, "If there is a disaster in your area, don't turn to God." The founder of the Christian Broadcasting Network explained, "You just voted God out of your city."
Geez Pat, you bag of shit, there already WAS a disaster in Dover it was called the Dover School Board, that's why they voted the ignorant bastards out.
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If I knew then what I know now then I would know more now than I know. |
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Randy
SFN Regular
USA
1990 Posts |
Posted - 11/10/2005 : 15:42:01 [Permalink]
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quote:
Geez Pat, you bag of shit, there already WAS a disaster in Dover it was called the Dover School Board, that's why they voted the ignorant bastards out.
Poor little constipated Pat is upset because the good citizens of Dover just voted to give the School Board a much needed enema.
Thanks to that, free thinking is alive and well again in Dover schools again!
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"We are all connected; to each other biologically, to the earth chemically, to the rest of the universe atomically."
"So you're made of detritus [from exploded stars]. Get over it. Or better yet, celebrate it. After all, what nobler thought can one cherish than that the universe lives within us all?"
-Neil DeGrasse Tyson |
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 11/10/2005 : 17:50:14 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Ricky
If I was a deist, then I believe that we don't know who the creator is, nor will we ever know. So asking that question would be an exercise in vanity.
But what about the other important questions, Ricky? Like "why did the designer design us this way?" or "when did the designer do its designing?" or "what methods did the designer use while designing?" These are just a few examples.
One way or another, if one keeps asking questions about this "design," one will wind up trying to identify the designer, since much of the design will depend on the character of the designer. The only way the designer's identity doesn't come up is if one voluntarily stops doing science altogether, which not even the current ID proponents really want. No, they want to (ab)use science in order to prove God.
And yes, it's the Christian God, as nearly 100% of ID proponents are Christians of one stripe or another. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 11/10/2005 : 18:26:06 [Permalink]
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I just realized: Ricky has become an SFN Addict...
Congratulations! |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 11/10/2005 : 18:56:02 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Ricky
Again, the answers to these are that we can't know.
Then even making the suggestion that something about this universe is designed is vacuous. But IDists aren't saying "we can't know whether we were designed," they're saying we are designed. If the answer to all the natural follow-up questions to that assertion are "we can't know," then the assertion itself is devoid of content.quote:
I was of the opinion that IDists did not name the Christian God as the designer when they talk about ID, although this is what they believe. Is this incorrect?
When speaking to Christian audiences, IDists gladly talk about God the Designer. There's also Dembski's line about ID being the "logos of the Gospel of John rewritten in terms of information theory." And Wells' admission that the Reverend Moon sent him to get a PhD in biochemistry in order to topple evolutionary theory. And someone (I forget who at this moment) said that science which doesn't directly glorify Jesus must be eliminated. Don't forget that the Wedge Document begins,The proposition that human beings are created in the image of God is one of the bedrock principles on which Western civilization was built. That's clearly Biblical in nature (if you'll pardon the pun).quote:
I'm actually kind of curious on what the actual numbers are. You wouldn't know of any source to find those, would you?
Just the near-complete lack of non-Christian, publicly vocal IDists. There's the one Muslim guy who testified in Kansas. And that's the only non-Christian at the forefront of the movement I can think of. Wells, Behe, Dembski, Johnson, Nelson, Meyers and the Dover school-board member who said that fighting to teach ID in high school is a way to defend Jesus are all Christians. I can't even come up with the name of a single demonstrably non-religious IDist. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Starman
SFN Regular
Sweden
1613 Posts |
Posted - 11/28/2005 : 02:56:19 [Permalink]
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Maybe there is some sanity in Kansas:
Kansas City Star : Intelligent design backers criticize KU course title quote:
The course, “Special Topics in Religion: Intelligent Design, Creationism and other Religious Mythologies,” will be offered next semester. The goal, university officials say, is to open students up to the many cross-cultural stories of how the world was created.
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“All of a sudden, just from the title, intelligent design is being put in there with mythology,” said Bruce Simat, an associate biology professor at Minnesota's Northwestern College, who testified on behalf of intelligent design at Kansas hearings in May.
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What worries John Calvert, an attorney and managing director of Johnson County's Intelligent Design Network, is whether the course instructor will be educated in the science behind intelligent design.
“… People will be misled and buy the lie,” Calvert said. “But the public is going to see what's going on. We're not all fools. Misinformation has a finite life.”
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"Any religion that makes a form of torture into an icon that they worship seems to me a pretty sick sort of religion quite honestly"
-- Terry Jones |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 11/28/2005 : 05:36:16 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Starman
Maybe there is some sanity in Kansas:
Kansas City Star : Intelligent design backers criticize KU course title quote:
The course, “Special Topics in Religion: Intelligent Design, Creationism and other Religious Mythologies,” will be offered next semester. The goal, university officials say, is to open students up to the many cross-cultural stories of how the world was created.
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“All of a sudden, just from the title, intelligent design is being put in there with mythology,” said Bruce Simat, an associate biology professor at Minnesota's Northwestern College, who testified on behalf of intelligent design at Kansas hearings in May.
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What worries John Calvert, an attorney and managing director of Johnson County's Intelligent Design Network, is whether the course instructor will be educated in the science behind intelligent design.
“… People will be misled and buy the lie,” Calvert said. “But the public is going to see what's going on. We're not all fools. Misinformation has a finite life.”
Heh, indeed they will and indeed it does. Will you be comfortable on your petard, Mr. Calvert?
quote:
And someone (I forget who at this moment) said that science which doesn't directly glorify Jesus must be eliminated.
I seem to recall that this blither came from one of the founders of ICR but I too, disremember which one. He also said to the effect that "if the data conflicts with my interpretation of scripture, then those data are flawed."
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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moakley
SFN Regular
USA
1888 Posts |
Posted - 11/28/2005 : 06:32:00 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Robb
I think your 5 questions will help me to make that determination and thank you for them. But I think you misread my post, I am not sure that ID is science, your post seems to be belittleing me because I have not made up my mind. You have assummed by the quote you used that I will defend ID no matter what because of my belief in God. I do believe we were created by God but I do not know if it can be translated into a science.
My only intent. For ID to be science it must play by the rules of the scientific method. (emphasis added) |
Life is good
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous |
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moakley
SFN Regular
USA
1888 Posts |
Posted - 11/28/2005 : 06:39:26 [Permalink]
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There is a much better list originally posted over at PT, and repeated here in other threads, but it bears repeating. I believe that it should be repeated often and in as many publication sources as possible. Who knows who it might influence. By Dr. Lenny Flank
quote:
The scientific method is very simple, and consists of five basic steps. They are:
1. Observe some aspect of the universe
2. Form a hypothesis that potentially explains what you have observed
3. Make testible predictions from that hypothesis
4. Make observations or experiments that can test those predictions
5. Modify your hypothesis until it is in accord with all observations and predictions
NOTHING in any of those five steps excludes on principle, a priori, any “supernatural cause”.
Using this method, one is entirely free to invoke as many non-material pixies, ghosts,
goddesses, demons, devils, djinis, and/or the Great Pumpkin, as many times as you like,
in any or all of your hypotheses. And science won't (and doesn't) object to that in the
slightest. Indeed, scientific experiments have been proposed (and carried out and published)
on such “supernatural causes” as the effects of prayer on healing, as well as such
“non-materialistic” or “non-natural” causes as ESP, telekinesis, precognition and
“remote viewing”. So ID's claim that science unfairly rejects supernatural or
non-material causes out of hand on principle, is demonstrably quite wrong.
However, what science DOES require is that any supernatural or non-material hypothesis,
whatever it might be, then be subjected to steps 3, 4 and 5.
Simple, straight-forward, and accurate.
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Life is good
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous |
| Edited by - moakley on 11/28/2005 06:42:15 |
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Starman
SFN Regular
Sweden
1613 Posts |
Posted - 12/01/2005 : 05:42:37 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Starman
Maybe there is some sanity in Kansas:
Kansas City Star : Intelligent design backers criticize KU course title
Looks like the evil ones are doing some dumpster diving do get back at the professor:
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=47664 quote:
The Harvard-educated Paul Mirecki serves as the head of the Religious Studies Department at Kansas University – at least for the time being. By the time a KU administrator finishes reading this article – much of the information revealed here for the first time – Mirecki's job may be in jeopardy. If he continues in his post, it will be further proof of the double standard that universities maintain when it comes to the question of "hate speech."
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"Any religion that makes a form of torture into an icon that they worship seems to me a pretty sick sort of religion quite honestly"
-- Terry Jones |
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