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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26024 Posts |
 Posted - 12/08/2005 : 05:45:34 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by bigbrain
I'm waiting for an intelligent answer
Well, you've already rejected the real answer, even though you've posted the formula which demonstrates it to be the real answer. Why should anyone bother trying to explain it to you? Certainly you can plug the same number in and get the right answer, just like anyone else. (Hint: m1 is 1.9891×1030 kg.) |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2005 : 05:48:17 [Permalink]
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Someone correct me if I am wrong, but I do believe that it's the gravity of the sun that slows everything in the solar system not in orbit around something. Or speeds it if heading toward the sun, and will even establish an orbit for it.
You really are the most insufferable twit even to riccochet into here. Have you never studied anything? Must all of your statements be the blather of the uninformed?
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Fripp
SFN Regular
USA
727 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2005 : 06:47:11 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by bigbrain
I'm waiting for an intelligent answer[
So are we, Big Brain. So are we.
So how about those satellites? Are there any? |
"What the hell is an Aluminum Falcon?"
"Oh, I'm sorry. I thought my Dark Lord of the Sith could protect a small thermal exhaust port that's only 2-meters wide! That thing wasn't even fully paid off yet! You have any idea what this is going to do to my credit?!?!"
"What? Oh, oh, 'just rebuild it'? Oh, real [bleep]ing original. And who's gonna give me a loan, jackhole? You? You got an ATM on that torso LiteBrite?" |
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bigbrain
BANNED
409 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2005 : 13:54:28 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
quote:
Originally posted by bigbrain
I'm waiting for an intelligent answer
Well, you've already rejected the real answer, even though you've posted the formula which demonstrates it to be the real answer. Why should anyone bother trying to explain it to you? Certainly you can plug the same number in and get the right answer, just like anyone else. (Hint: m1 is 1.9891×1030 kg.)
/r2
Since gravity force decreases proportionally to /r2, Cassini ought to run faster going away from the sun.
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"Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit" (Flattery gets friends, truth hatred)
Publius Terentius Afer, "Terence", Roman dramatist
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Fripp
SFN Regular
USA
727 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2005 : 14:06:35 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by bigbrain
Since gravity force decreases proportionally to /r2, Cassini ought to run faster going away from the sun.
Oh my God! Are you stupid! Do you know nothing about physics, specifically inertia?
BTW, are there any man-made satellites in orbit around the earth right now? Gosh, I would like an answer. |
"What the hell is an Aluminum Falcon?"
"Oh, I'm sorry. I thought my Dark Lord of the Sith could protect a small thermal exhaust port that's only 2-meters wide! That thing wasn't even fully paid off yet! You have any idea what this is going to do to my credit?!?!"
"What? Oh, oh, 'just rebuild it'? Oh, real [bleep]ing original. And who's gonna give me a loan, jackhole? You? You got an ATM on that torso LiteBrite?" |
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bigbrain
BANNED
409 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2005 : 14:28:05 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Fripp
Oh my God! Are you stupid! Do you know nothing about physics, specifically inertia?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newton%27s_first_law_of_motion
"Unless acted upon by an unbalanced force, an object will maintain a constant velocity ...
Only unbalanced forces induce acceleration, or a change in the velocity or an object".
Since force of gravity decreases, Cassini ought to increase its speed going away from the sun.
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"Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit" (Flattery gets friends, truth hatred)
Publius Terentius Afer, "Terence", Roman dramatist
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2005 : 16:08:14 [Permalink]
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Then by your reasoning, there should be no comets, asteroid belt, and Pluto should be sailing majesticly away toward Spagetti Monster knows where because the sun's gravity couldn't catch any of it.
The gravity of the sun was still enough to overcome the velocity of Cassini before it reached it's destination, thus the various gravity slings to enhance that velocity. Now safely in an orbit, the sun won't affect it much.
Yeesh!
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Bunga
Skeptic Friend
Sweden
74 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2005 : 17:04:06 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by bigbrain
Since force of gravity decreases, Cassini ought to increase its speed going away from the sun.
Err... no.
As the force of gravity decreases, the acceleration of the probe toward the sun will decrease, but unless the force of gravity becomes negative, the speed of the probe (relative to the sun) will not increase.
Gravity is an attractive force. It pulls, never pushes.
And for the force of gravity acting on the probe to become negative, the r2 value would have to be greater than infinity.
It's incredible but italian buffoons don't know gravity is an attractive force |
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furshur
SFN Regular
USA
1536 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2005 : 17:24:06 [Permalink]
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quote:
Since force of gravity decreases, Cassini ought to increase its speed going away from the sun.
This is why if you jump into the air you will travel up off the surface of the earth and keep accelerating into outerspace until you hit the speed of light and turn into a buffoon.
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If I knew then what I know now then I would know more now than I know. |
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Randy
SFN Regular
USA
1990 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2005 : 18:29:27 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by furshur
This is why if you jump into the air you will travel up off the surface of the earth and keep accelerating into outerspace until you hit the speed of light and turn into a buffoon.
(enter hyena-like laughing!)
Great visual there, furshur.
Gosh, you think maybe if one followed NASA's lead, one could economically travel our solar system and visit other planets like this one? |
"We are all connected; to each other biologically, to the earth chemically, to the rest of the universe atomically."
"So you're made of detritus [from exploded stars]. Get over it. Or better yet, celebrate it. After all, what nobler thought can one cherish than that the universe lives within us all?"
-Neil DeGrasse Tyson |
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bigbrain
BANNED
409 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2005 : 12:14:16 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Bunga
Gravity is an attractive force. It pulls, never pushes.
Yes, but Cassini have rocket engines and could easily increase its velocity going away from the sun.
What do you notice in this poor formula?
F = -G m1 m2 / r2
Where are velocities of the two bodies with mass m1 and mass m2?
Are their velocities insignificant?
We know nothing about gravitational forces.
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"Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit" (Flattery gets friends, truth hatred)
Publius Terentius Afer, "Terence", Roman dramatist
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2005 : 12:22:20 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by bigbrain
Originally posted by Fripp
Oh my God! Are you stupid! Do you know nothing about physics, specifically inertia?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newton%27s_first_law_of_motion
"Unless acted upon by an unbalanced force, an object will maintain a constant velocity ...
Only unbalanced forces induce acceleration, or a change in the velocity or an object".
Since force of gravity decreases, Cassini ought to increase its speed going away from the sun.
But there is no additional thrust being applied to the object......
Aw screw it, he won't listen. He'll just continue to believe that the object has been imbued with impetus and will continue to try to accellerate until that impetus is used up. (Much like the ballistics heresy of the 1500's.) |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2005 : 12:27:23 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by bigbrain
Originally posted by Bunga
Gravity is an attractive force. It pulls, never pushes.
Yes, but Cassini have rocket engines and could easily increase its velocity going away from the sun.
What do you notice in this poor formula?
F = -G m1 m2 / r2
Where are velocities of the two bodies with mass m1 and mass m2?
Are their velocities insignificant?
We know nothing about gravitational forces.
But just because it HAS them doesn't mean it's USING them continuously in flight.
The fact of the matter is that Cassini was not using it's engines during the transit of the inner planets. It's that whole "to save fuel" thing as Cassini does not have an infinite fuel source for it's engines.
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Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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furshur
SFN Regular
USA
1536 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2005 : 13:06:51 [Permalink]
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quote:
F = -G m1 m2 / r2
Where are velocities of the two bodies with mass m1 and mass m2?
Are their velocities insignificant?
No, they are just irrelevent to the force of gravity.
quote:
We know nothing about gravitational forces.
Correction - you know nothing about gravity or algebra for that matter.
I can't decide if BB is just a troll trying to simply annoy us or he really is that ignorant. No matter it doesn't mean that much to me either way.
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If I knew then what I know now then I would know more now than I know. |
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bigbrain
BANNED
409 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2005 : 14:25:19 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
From launch to the first Venus flyby was about 386 million miles (MM) over 193 days, for an average speed of 83,438 MPH.
From there to the second Venus flyby was 648 MM over 424 days, for an average of 63,689 MPH.
From there to the Earth flyby was just 142 MM over 55 days (!), for a peak average speed of 108,108 MPH.
Therefore Cassini would have been able to go directly to Saturn at 83,438 mph with full tanks, without wasting time on turning two times round the sun in a useless journey of 1,176,000,000 miles, using fuel to increase its velocity going away from the sun.
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"Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit" (Flattery gets friends, truth hatred)
Publius Terentius Afer, "Terence", Roman dramatist
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