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bigbrain
BANNED
409 Posts |
 Posted - 12/14/2005 : 12:20:37 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Valiant Dancer
A simplified version is fine. Allow for the gravitational pull of the sun, decreasing as you get closer to saturn to calculate potential energies. and then simply calculate the amount of energy released from a kg. of fuel and compare that to the potential energy difference of cassini at Earth to cassini at Saturn. You will need to allow for the weight of the fuel in the potential energy calculation."
You are telling only a lot of craps.
Suppose that BNBFS (Big NASA Buffoons Flyby System) works.
Before BNB increase Cassini's velocity with Venus that runs faster than the Earth but then with the last flyby near the Earth they attract Cassini in the gravitational field of our planet.
But the Earth runs slower than Venus.
Therefore Big NASA Buffoons with the Earth flyby decrease Cassini's velocity.
Are they idiot?
YES, there is not other explanation.
Agnolo Bronzino (1503-1572)
An Allegory ( Venus, Cupid, Time and Folly)
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"Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit" (Flattery gets friends, truth hatred)
Publius Terentius Afer, "Terence", Roman dramatist
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 12/14/2005 : 12:42:11 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by bigbrain
[b]Originally posted by Valiant Dancer
A simplified version is fine. Allow for the gravitational pull of the sun, decreasing as you get closer to saturn to calculate potential energies. and then simply calculate the amount of energy released from a kg. of fuel and compare that to the potential energy difference of cassini at Earth to cassini at Saturn. You will need to allow for the weight of the fuel in the potential energy calculation."
[blue]You are telling only a lot of craps.
Suppose that BNBFS (Big NASA Buffoons Flyby System) works.
Before BNB increase Cassini's velocity with Venus that runs faster than the Earth but then with the last flyby near the Earth they attract Cassini in the gravitational field of our planet.
But the Earth runs slower than Venus.
Therefore Big NASA Buffoons with the Earth flyby decrease Cassini's velocity.
Are they idiot?
YES, there is not other explanation.
Where's your math to prove out this? Where is the application of physics? Where is anything except for hand waving?
Standard question #1.
At least answer the standard question #1, bb. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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Siberia
SFN Addict
Brazil
2322 Posts |
Posted - 12/14/2005 : 12:50:17 [Permalink]
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| May I suggest that next thread, after this one is locked, we simply resort to repeating the satellites question? |
"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa
"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
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sts60
Skeptic Friend
141 Posts |
Posted - 12/14/2005 : 12:59:34 [Permalink]
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it is far more cost effective to shift the probe into an orbit which will take it past its target. This can easily - of course it requires some very advanced mathematics in calculating the orbit and the relative positions of the various bodies in the solar system, and engineering solutions in the craft - be done by shifting the orbit of the probe at any point in the orbit. NASA decided to do this close to the sun, stealing some of Venus' inertia to boost the probe on its way.
Now, I'm not a physicist, but I'm fairly certain that what I've said above is true in principle.
Yep. I'm not a physicist either (majored in it, but I'm an engineer), but you're basically right. The only thing is that you want to "shift the orbit" at perihelion (closest approach to Sun) or aphelion (furthest point from Sun).
On a Venus-Venus-Earth-Gravity Assist (VVEGA) trajectory such as Cassini used, you start out basically sharing Earth's orbital velocity and in an essentially circular orbit about the Sun (i.e., Earth's orbit). You have to burn enough to get away from Earth and slow down relative to the Sun, so that you are now starting from aphelion of a pretty elliptical orbit with perihelion at the same distance as Venus'. Lo and behold, when you get there, so is Venus - well, you planned it that way. You swing around Venus a couple of times (with a deep-space maneuver included, IIRC), each time stealing a bit of that planet's angular momentum about the Sun for your own. Now moving like a bat outta hell, you swing by Earth on the way to the outer solar system, gaining more momentum and using the Earth as a "pivot point" to shape your trajectory.
Yeah, it's pretty complicated. I just know the general principles, and that it works beautifully. A very elegant application of the laws Newton derived centuries ago. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 12/14/2005 : 13:02:25 [Permalink]
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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bigbrain
BANNED
409 Posts |
Posted - 12/14/2005 : 13:52:23 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by sts60
Yeah, it's pretty complicated. I just know the general principles, and that it works beautifully. A very elegant application of the laws Newton derived centuries ago.
How are you, dear professor?
You have said a greatest crap telling: "I just know the general principles, and that it works beautifully".
You know nothing about gravitational forces but you say: "that it works beautifully", "a very elegant application".
Beauty and elegance are no use going to Saturn. You don't understand anything about gravity and orbits.
Your reasonings are only ridiculous. Cassini's mass is 6 tons. You can find an orbit for Cassini round our planet but not round the sun, 6 tons are insignificant for the sun at the distance of Saturn.
Tell me, dear professor engineer, could Twin Towers crash that way?
500,000 tons against 200 tons.
NO = you are enough intelligent.
YES = you are very idiot.
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"Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit" (Flattery gets friends, truth hatred)
Publius Terentius Afer, "Terence", Roman dramatist
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Fripp
SFN Regular
USA
727 Posts |
Posted - 12/14/2005 : 14:07:40 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by bigbrain
Tell me, dear professor engineer, could Twin Towers crash that way?
Boy, are you spewing out the craps. Why don't you answer the question: Are there man-made satellites in orbit around the earth right now?
NO = you are an idiot.
YES = you are intelligent. (Very doubtful)
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"What the hell is an Aluminum Falcon?"
"Oh, I'm sorry. I thought my Dark Lord of the Sith could protect a small thermal exhaust port that's only 2-meters wide! That thing wasn't even fully paid off yet! You have any idea what this is going to do to my credit?!?!"
"What? Oh, oh, 'just rebuild it'? Oh, real [bleep]ing original. And who's gonna give me a loan, jackhole? You? You got an ATM on that torso LiteBrite?" |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 12/14/2005 : 14:19:22 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by bigbrain
Originally posted by sts60
Yeah, it's pretty complicated. I just know the general principles, and that it works beautifully. A very elegant application of the laws Newton derived centuries ago.
How are you, dear professor?
You have said a greatest crap telling: "I just know the general principles, and that it works beautifully".
You know nothing about gravitational forces but you say: "that it works beautifully", "a very elegant application".
Beauty and elegance are no use going to Saturn. You don't understand anything about gravity and orbits.
Your reasonings are only ridiculous. Cassini's mass is 6 tons. You can find an orbit for Cassini round our planet but not round the sun, 6 tons are insignificant for the sun at the distance of Saturn.
Tell me, dear professor engineer, could Twin Towers crash that way?
500,000 tons against 200 tons.
NO = you are enough intelligent.
YES = you are very idiot.
From the dark bowels of Bedlam, the pot calls the kettle not only an idiot, but a very idiot. Wow!
Kindly provide reference for your claims -- damn! At this juncture, I should long have known better than to even ask for reference.
You don't have any reference, do you b. Not only do you not have reference but you have completly failed to study orbital mechanics.
As for the WTC, please explain how demolition charges could have been placed without anyone noticing and detonated at the exact time the hijacked aircraft hit the buildings. I will know if you are bullshitting on this; demolitions was a specialty of mine in the service.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 12/14/2005 : 14:39:28 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by filthy
quote:
Originally posted by bigbrain
NO = you are enough intelligent.
YES = you are very idiot.[/blue]
From the dark bowels of Bedlam, the pot calls the kettle not only an idiot, but a very idiot. Wow!
Kindly provide reference for your claims -- damn! At this juncture, I should long have known better than to even ask for reference.
You don't have any reference, do you b[/b]. Not only do you not have reference but you have completly failed to study orbital mechanics.
As for the WTC, please explain how demolition charges could have been placed without anyone noticing and detonated at the exact time the hijacked aircraft hit the buildings. I will know if you are bullshitting on this; demolitions was a specialty of mine in the service.
Filthy - when it absolutely, positively has to be blown to smithereens over night.
Special Forces, SEALS, or CB's, filth?
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Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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Subjectmatter
Skeptic Friend
173 Posts |
Posted - 12/14/2005 : 14:56:05 [Permalink]
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Well, speaking of elegant mathematics and since talking to bb is a waste of the internet, here is some of my 'artwork'. All of the following are purely mathematical functions...
Whoops! didn't mean for them to be that large... sorry about that. |
Sibling Atom Bomb of Couteous Debate |
| Edited by - Subjectmatter on 12/14/2005 14:57:37 |
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Randy
SFN Regular
USA
1990 Posts |
Posted - 12/14/2005 : 15:29:38 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Subjectmatter
Well, speaking of elegant mathematics and since talking to bb is a waste of the internet, here is some of my 'artwork'. All of the following are purely mathematical functions...
Whoops! didn't mean for them to be that large... sorry about that.
Where are the stars????
Such elegant buffoonery mathematics.
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"We are all connected; to each other biologically, to the earth chemically, to the rest of the universe atomically."
"So you're made of detritus [from exploded stars]. Get over it. Or better yet, celebrate it. After all, what nobler thought can one cherish than that the universe lives within us all?"
-Neil DeGrasse Tyson |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 12/14/2005 : 16:24:02 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Valiant Dancer
quote:
Originally posted by filthy
quote:
Originally posted by bigbrain
NO = you are enough intelligent.
YES = you are very idiot.[/blue]
From the dark bowels of Bedlam, the pot calls the kettle not only an idiot, but a very idiot. Wow!
Kindly provide reference for your claims -- damn! At this juncture, I should long have known better than to even ask for reference.
You don't have any reference, do you b[/b]. Not only do you not have reference but you have completly failed to study orbital mechanics.
As for the WTC, please explain how demolition charges could have been placed without anyone noticing and detonated at the exact time the hijacked aircraft hit the buildings. I will know if you are bullshitting on this; demolitions was a specialty of mine in the service.
Filthy - when it absolutely, positively has to be blown to smithereens over night.
Special Forces, SEALS, or CB's, filth?
Easy. Either Underwater Demolition Teams or one of the old Navy salvage divers, of which I was one, that studied advanced demolitions. We and the UDT recieved a lot of training in creative BOOM, and I have taught it to divers and SEALS back in the mid '60s, mainly shaped charges of exactly the sort that would have been used to implode a building.
Trust me when I tell you that an implosion series would not have been set unnoticed in the WTC. And they would not have been rigged overnight. And timing the detonation to coordinate with a hijacked aricraft, with no guarentee that the hijack would even be successful nor that it would arrive at a given time, would be a blaster's nightmare. It would make more sense, assuming the series could be set in the first place (Hah!), to just shoot the building and be done with it.
These WTC conspiricy dingbats amuse me no end.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 12/14/2005 : 16:29:57 [Permalink]
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Damn! Wha hoppon to dis page.....?
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Fripp
SFN Regular
USA
727 Posts |
Posted - 12/15/2005 : 07:00:41 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by filthy
Either Underwater Demolition Teams or one of the old Navy salvage divers, of which I was one, that studied advanced demolitions. We and the UDT recieved a lot of training in creative BOOM, and I have taught it to divers and SEALS back in the mid '60s, mainly shaped charges of exactly the sort that would have been used to implode a building.
Trust me when I tell you that an implosion series would not have been set unnoticed in the WTC. And they would not have been rigged overnight. And timing the detonation to coordinate with a hijacked aricraft, with no guarentee that the hijack would even be successful nor that it would arrive at a given time, would be a blaster's nightmare. It would make more sense, assuming the series could be set in the first place (Hah!), to just shoot the building and be done with it.
Former Navy SEAL here and I completely concur with the above. Rigging explosives is such a long, involved, and painstaking process. Getting the charges to blow at a PRECISE time is phenomenally difficult. Plus, explosives are finicky. How many times have we seen news accounts of professional demo teams failing to bring down a building? |
"What the hell is an Aluminum Falcon?"
"Oh, I'm sorry. I thought my Dark Lord of the Sith could protect a small thermal exhaust port that's only 2-meters wide! That thing wasn't even fully paid off yet! You have any idea what this is going to do to my credit?!?!"
"What? Oh, oh, 'just rebuild it'? Oh, real [bleep]ing original. And who's gonna give me a loan, jackhole? You? You got an ATM on that torso LiteBrite?" |
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sts60
Skeptic Friend
141 Posts |
Posted - 12/15/2005 : 10:28:43 [Permalink]
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| I volunteer as an FF, and another thing I think is mighty amusing about the "demolition" claims for WTC 1, 2, and especially 7 is that the PCTs think demolition experts would be confident of things going exactly as they wanted in such a radio-rich environment. Criminy, every cop, firefighter, and public utility worker in lower Manhattan was hollering into their radios nonstop that day, and every civilian was hollering into their cell phones. I'm no demolition guy, but doesn't that strike you manly-men ex-SEALs and divers as a bad environment in which to attempt a series of massive, controlled demolitions? |
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