|
|
|
Bunga
Skeptic Friend
Sweden
74 Posts |
 Posted - 12/11/2005 : 09:58:53 [Permalink]
|
Now I see what the problem is! There aren't any stars in the sky in that picture.
So of course it must be fake. |
 |
|
|
Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26024 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2005 : 11:38:42 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by filthy
Perhaps b is concerned with what looks like a glow on the horizon. I seem to recall reading that, as the sky of Mars in not blue, it's thin atmosphere will give off a reflected glow if viewed from the right angle. Don't know how true that is, just passing it along.
Well, Earth's sky is brighter 90° away from the Sun (and darker 45° away). You can see it for yourself just by going outside. So at noon, one should expect to see brighter horizons. Don't know if the same is true of Mars' atmosphere, but the effect sure isn't unknown. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
|
|
|
bigbrain
BANNED
409 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2005 : 12:31:30 [Permalink]
|
Originally posted by Dave W.
So at noon, one should expect to see brighter horizons. Don't know if the same is true of Mars' atmosphere, but the effect sure isn't unknown.
I don't care if you don't understand anything about fake pictures.
Why didn't Cassini go directly to Saturn instead of wasting time, fuel and more than 1 billion miles turning two times round the sun?
   |
"Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit" (Flattery gets friends, truth hatred)
Publius Terentius Afer, "Terence", Roman dramatist
|
|
|
|
filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2005 : 13:01:30 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by bigbrain
Originally posted by Dave W.
So at noon, one should expect to see brighter horizons. Don't know if the same is true of Mars' atmosphere, but the effect sure isn't unknown.
I don't care if you don't understand anything about fake pictures.
Why didn't Cassini go directly to Saturn instead of wasting time, fuel and more than 1 billion miles turning two times round the sun?
Does Polly want a cracker?
 |
"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
|
|
|
|
Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26024 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2005 : 17:13:49 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by bigbrain
I don't care if you don't understand anything about fake pictures.
You haven't shown any Mars pictures to be fake. But why are you changing the subject? Did Sputnik orbit the Earth many times or not?quote:
Why didn't Cassini go directly to Saturn instead of wasting time, fuel and more than 1 billion miles turning two times round the sun?
Just to confuse you, bigbrain. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
|
|
|
GeeMack
SFN Regular
USA
1093 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2005 : 18:14:49 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by bigbrain...
I don't care if you don't understand anything about fake pictures.
Why didn't Cassini go directly to Saturn instead of wasting time, fuel and more than 1 billion miles turning two times round the sun?
Hold on tight, everyone, we're going around again!quote:
On August 9, 2005, over four months ago, and with 364 of his own postings since then, bigbrain wrote...
NASA engineers have not technology to steer their probes to Mars and Saturn.
They are only swindlers.
Dear friends
read carefully please:
Link to Cassini article at nasa.gov
The spacecraft's VELOCITY RELATIVE TO THE SUN is at about 26 kilometers per second (about 59,250 miles per hour). Cassini is now more than 9 million kilometers (almost 6 million miles) from Earth.
Since the probe is launched from the earth, it has already a velocity of 65,000 miles per hour (earth's velocity).
Why have NASA engineers steered Cassini on this trajectory?
Link to image at space.com
Instead of increasing Cassini's velocity they have slowed down it at 59,250 miles per hour.
NASA engineers think the earth is the center of our solar system and don't consider earth's velocity.
In this wrong way Cassini has travelled for 2 200 000 000 miles to meet Saturn.
Cassini would have been able to fly along a straight line travelling for less than 1 000 000 000 miles.
65,000 miles per hour (earth velocity) + 36,000 miles per hour (spacecraft's velocity) = 101,000 miles per hour
1 000 000 000 miles : 365 days : 24 hours : 101,000 miles per hour = 1.13 years
If NASA engineers considered the earth's velocity, Cassini could meet Saturn in one year!
If not the most successful troll in the history of the internet, bigbrain certainly is one of the most persistent. And I didn't even add in the total postings from the other couple of nicknames he has used to post on this forum. Whew. 
|
|
|
|
bigbrain
BANNED
409 Posts |
Posted - 12/12/2005 : 14:34:49 [Permalink]
|
This wonderful painting gets your images of Mars and Saturn a poorest fake scenario.
Come to Italy to admire it |
"Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit" (Flattery gets friends, truth hatred)
Publius Terentius Afer, "Terence", Roman dramatist
|
| Edited by - bigbrain on 12/12/2005 14:50:29 |
|
|
|
filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 12/12/2005 : 17:15:11 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by bigbrain
This wonderful painting gets your images of Mars and Saturn a poorest fake scenario.
Come to Italy to admire it
Back in the late '50s I was there and have seen it. A truly incomparable work of art.
However, it came from the fertile imagination of Michaelangelo and the deity and it's minions represented existed only in his mind. Yhe photos, on the other hand, were taken of actual objects, unless you can prove otherwise as you have claimed.
I, among the rest of the board members, regular lurkers, casual visitors, and accidental drop-ins await with rather waning interest for your as yet to be revealed references in support of those claims.
|
"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
|
|
|
|
Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 12/13/2005 : 07:04:01 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by bigbrain
Originally posted by Dave W.
You know that Cassini went around the Sun twice so that it would not use fuel.
Cassini has used much fuel to oppose to gravity force of the sun.
Prove it, schmuckboy. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
|
|
|
Subjectmatter
Skeptic Friend
173 Posts |
Posted - 12/13/2005 : 11:37:49 [Permalink]
|
I think sestuple-bs problem is with the idea of an orbit.
You see, sestuple-b, an orbit is the elliptical path an object takes around another object when it has some initial velocity, is not affected by friction and the gravitational pull of the other object is large enough to keep an object of that that inertia in said orbit (Iwon't bore you with the precise mathematics, is too much work anyway).
You can think of it as something falling forever, it is moving so quickly in a tangental vector to the ground that the relative direction of the ground is significantly different in the time it takes to reach the ground, thus it continues falling.
Now, an orbit is most likely elliptical. This means that at some points the satellite is closer to the sun than at other times. This means, that in order to conserve energy, the reduction in potential gravitational energy is offset by an equal increase in kinetic energy, the craft moves faster. If you think about it this makes sense, the craft falls towards the sun; accelerating relative to the sun due to gravity, and after it crosses the point where it is closest to the sun (heliopause I think it is called) it begins to move away from the sun and will therefore decelerate relative to the sun due to its gravity.
What you are suggesting is to pump the Huygens probe so full of potential energy using its fuel. This is silly, it is far more cost effective to shift the probe into an orbit which will take it past its target. This can easily - of course it requires some very advanced mathematics in calculating the orbit and the relative positions of the various bodies in the solar system, and engineering solutions in the craft - be done by shifting the orbit of the probe at any point in the orbit. NASA decided to do this close to the sun, stealing some of Venus' inertia to boost the probe on its way.
Now, I'm not a physicist, but I'm fairly certain that what I've said above is true in principle. I tried to put it into simple terms for you sestuple-b, but if there are any long words you don't understand please feel free to ask.
Just consider what you said earler "if you run away from the sun at 65.000 miles per hour..." We are not running away from the sun sestuple-b, we are running around it.
Consider this: the earth is 1 A.U. from the sun, as is familiar. Saturn is roughly 30 A.U.s[EDIT: actually 9.54, sorry] from the sun. That means that you have to travel 4,338,338,230km[EDIT: actually 1.278.956.559] away from the sun, that is [still] a long distance . The speed you have from the motion of the Earth is completely useless unless you first direct your craft towards the sun, as otherwise it will just go round and round the sun. |
Sibling Atom Bomb of Couteous Debate |
| Edited by - Subjectmatter on 12/13/2005 12:42:28 |
|
|
|
bigbrain
BANNED
409 Posts |
Posted - 12/13/2005 : 12:28:52 [Permalink]
|
Originally posted by Subjectmatter
Consider this: the earth is 1 A.U. from the sun, as is familiar. Saturn is roughly 30 A.U.s from the sun. That means that you have to travel 4,338,338,230km away from the sun, that is a long distance . The speed you have from the motion of the Earth is completely useless unless you first direct your craft towards the sun, as otherwise it will just go round and round the sun.
You ought to study a little more.
Saturn is 9,54 A.U. 1,429,400,000 km from the sun, 887,220,000 miles.
Big NASA Buffoons have steered Cassini for 2,200,000,000 miles turning two times round the sun before going to Saturn.
They could go to Saturn directly at highest velocity.
You have said only a lot of craps.
|
"Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit" (Flattery gets friends, truth hatred)
Publius Terentius Afer, "Terence", Roman dramatist
|
|
|
|
Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 12/13/2005 : 12:38:43 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by bigbrain
Originally posted by Subjectmatter
Consider this: the earth is 1 A.U. from the sun, as is familiar. Saturn is roughly 30 A.U.s from the sun. That means that you have to travel 4,338,338,230km away from the sun, that is a long distance . The speed you have from the motion of the Earth is completely useless unless you first direct your craft towards the sun, as otherwise it will just go round and round the sun.
You ought to study a little more.
Saturn is 9,54 A.U. 1,429,400,000 km from the sun, 887,220,000 miles.
Big NASA Buffoons have steered Cassini for 2,200,000,000 miles turning two times round the sun before going to Saturn.
They could go to Saturn directly at highest velocity.
You have said only a lot of craps.
You should study a lot more.
Again, prove your craps with more than hand waving and misapplication of gravitation.
Also, standard question number 1. (in case you forgot, it is are there or are there not man made satelites orbiting this miserable rock?)
|
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
|
|
|
Subjectmatter
Skeptic Friend
173 Posts |
Posted - 12/13/2005 : 12:38:54 [Permalink]
|
Whoops! Sorry, it said circumference and I read diameter. You are correct that it is 9.54 AU. Corrected now.
I stand by the rest though, and challenge you to to show that it is possible to carry enough fuel to go straight from earth to Saturn.
A simplified version is fine. Allow for the gravitational pull of the sun, decreasing as you get closer to saturn to calculate potential energies. and then simply calculate the amount of energy released from a kg. of fuel and compare that to the potential energy difference of cassini at earth to cassini at saturn. You will need to allow for the weight of the fuel in the potential energy calculation.
Keep in mind that without going closer to the sun first the speed at the beginning is useless as it will not take you further out into the solar system.
BTW are there artificial satellites in orbit around earth? |
Sibling Atom Bomb of Couteous Debate |
| Edited by - Subjectmatter on 12/13/2005 12:50:19 |
|
|
|
bigbrain
BANNED
409 Posts |
Posted - 12/13/2005 : 13:26:11 [Permalink]
|
Originally posted by Subjectmatter
Keep in mind that without going closer to the sun first the speed at the beginning is useless as it will not take you further out into the solar system.
Hey, little guy, do you think the sun is a battery charger for Cassini?
How do you reason?
Like BNB?
You ought to be ashamed of yourself
|
"Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit" (Flattery gets friends, truth hatred)
Publius Terentius Afer, "Terence", Roman dramatist
|
|
|
|
Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 12/13/2005 : 15:14:01 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by bigbrain
Originally posted by Subjectmatter
Keep in mind that without going closer to the sun first the speed at the beginning is useless as it will not take you further out into the solar system.
Hey, little guy, do you think the sun is a battery charger for Cassini?
How do you reason?
Like BNB?
You ought to be ashamed of yourself
And yet again, you ignore the main thrust of the post to tilt after windmills.
Well done Don Quixote. Way to dodge the questions put to you.
Subjectmatter posited, "I stand by the rest though, and challenge you to to show that it is possible to carry enough fuel to go straight from earth to Saturn.
A simplified version is fine. Allow for the gravitational pull of the sun, decreasing as you get closer to saturn to calculate potential energies. and then simply calculate the amount of energy released from a kg. of fuel and compare that to the potential energy difference of cassini at earth to cassini at saturn. You will need to allow for the weight of the fuel in the potential energy calculation."
Also, standard question #1. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
|
|
 |
|
|
|
Topic Locked
