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Siberia
SFN Addict
Brazil
2322 Posts |
 Posted - 12/01/2005 : 15:21:17 [Permalink]
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| Bush is like Hitler, but he doesn't have the finesse of Hitler, or the smarts, or even the bloody rhetoric to keep troops cool. |
"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa
"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 12/01/2005 : 18:27:34 [Permalink]
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quote:
I'll stick by my thought that in some ways, we were lucky the guy was such a lunatic. If he'd been less screwed-up, more calculated, and clever enough to play his cards right and listen to his advisors, almost certainly the Brits and most likely the Russians would have been dead meat and we might have been in big trouble, too. Stalin was so shocked when Hitler broke their anti-aggression pact that he disappeared for a week just to get his head together. Before that, Chamberlain must have been on an acid trip.
There is little question that Hitler was one of our best allies in the war aginst Germany. If the man had been more reasoned, and managed to still have the immense charisma and presence, we would probably be speaking German. Good for us that nobody could talk him into leaving the soviets alone and concentrating on the brits and consolidation of the rest of western Europe. If the Nazis had managed that, there is not much doubt that they would have easily destroyed the Soviets. Wars on multiple fronts is never a good idea, and even less a good idea when you are strapped for resources.
That one of the preeminent military historians of the current time thinks the war in Iraq is MORE foolish than Hitler's blunders should speak volumes.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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ronnywhite
SFN Regular
501 Posts |
Posted - 12/01/2005 : 21:37:49 [Permalink]
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Starman
I'm almost afraid to ask, and maybe it's that I can be a little slow on these things, but were you talking about the goat Hitler encountered during adolescence mentioned in a book on theories of his psychological evolvement? If so, "Good God!" For those unfamiliar, it involves a dubious piece of missing history (ha ha.) Among other theories mentioned I found more interesting from the book, one involved Hitler having contracted encephalitis during his hospital convalescence following a WWI chlorine gas attack from which he was partially blinded (encephalitis and other infectious disease were commonly transmitted in these infirmaries.) In the early 70's a rare aftereffect of encephalitis was documented in a neuropsychiatry journal describing an (apparently specific) form of brain damage resulting in boundless confidence, delusions of extreme grandeur, and sociopathy including a total disregard for the welfare of others. It's easy to imagine how that might be advantageous to one with political aspirations. That could be why he was such a rare sort of madman, filthy. He was "lucky" enough to get some of his brains scrambled in such a way that left him with a sort of lunacy especially conducive to excelling at tyranny and despotism... as such, maybe Hitler's mind just wasn't a "natural state of affairs," at least not in accordance with the wiring of the brains humans are born with... maybe people just aren't naturally like that. |
Ron White |
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Starman
SFN Regular
Sweden
1613 Posts |
Posted - 12/02/2005 : 01:48:45 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by ronnywhite
Starman
I'm almost afraid to ask, and maybe it's that I can be a little slow on these things, but were you talking about the goat Hitler encountered during adolescence mentioned in a book on theories of his psychological evolvement?
Naaah!
I was thinking about an other chief of state, from an other country... |
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ronnywhite
SFN Regular
501 Posts |
Posted - 12/02/2005 : 02:15:52 [Permalink]
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Starman-
Got it. Geopolitics ain't my forte, so it can be a little unclear, sometimes. It was a good book, though... the part about the encephalitis-related syndrome really described Hitler to a tee... could a freak "symbiotic relationship" with a bacteria or virus have created Hitler as we know him??? Good god almighty. |
Ron White |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 12/02/2005 : 11:07:48 [Permalink]
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I don't think Hitler is like Saddam or Bush.
That's one reason I was objecting to what I thought Ronny was saying. There's no way Saddam has shown himself to be anywhere the same threat as Hitler. Hitler had convinced many to follow. Saddam just intimidated others to cower.
And Bush also is no great leader (good or bad) on the level of Hitler. That's just a joke.
But as far as the OT goes, Hitler's blunders were certainly on a scale worse than Bush's. |
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
Posted - 12/02/2005 : 11:21:58 [Permalink]
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| Well when you shoot for the top the fall is alot farther. Time will tell, who knows what could spawn out of this in 25 years+. |
"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History
"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini |
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Scotty
New Member
United Kingdom
12 Posts |
Posted - 12/05/2005 : 09:22:54 [Permalink]
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If Saadam is to be compared to anyoen in history , I think it should be Stalin, Saadam after all was obsessed by the man , (from john simpson BBC reporter who spent years in Iraq).
Certainly his need to control everything centrally , the elimination of all potential challenges to his leadership, all speak of someone who say himself as an iron man of the middleast , Rember the Ba'th party was founded in the early 50's as a secularist socalist movement in the middle east determined to move the region on from the hold of Islam - rather ronic as it turned out!
As for the greatest military disaster in the last 2000 years , I'd put the German Invasion of Russia in the top 10 along side Pearl Harbour , millions died as the outcome of both decisions , decry Iraq as much as you want , I certainly do , but the level of suffering there is a fraction of that on the Eastern Front during WWII, (1000 tanks destroyed in 1 day at the battle or Kursk for example)
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"Nac Mac Feegle! The Wee Free Men! Nae king! Nae quin! Nae laird! We willna be fooled again!" -
T. Prattchett - Wee Free Men |
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ronnywhite
SFN Regular
501 Posts |
Posted - 12/05/2005 : 22:27:59 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Scotty
If Saadam is to be compared to anyone in history , I think it should be Stalin
In principle- I agree, but in practice- there's no comparison... in terms of the scope of his brutality Saadam seems closer to maybe Amin (of Uganda notoriety) "on steroids" or something like that... unquestionably viscious with essentially no regard for human life(having his troops "dig-in" with absolutely nothing to do except be slaughtered during Gulf War I was pretty bad) but it seems like Stalin might be "in a class by himself". From intentionally starving millions with "Collective Farming" to murdering just everyone who didn't suit his whims, Stalin was unbelievable. Stalin is generally regarded as the biggest mass-murderer in human history...compared to Stalin, even Hitler wasn't that bad, hard to imagine as this seems.
I gotta' edit this to note: Stalin's daughter expressed discontent with some of his policies, so he had her murdered, too (I guess that answers any questions as to where Stalin would have stood on the abortion issue... he had a very late-term abortion performed at birth+400 months or so- well, I'm pro-choice, but not for the same reasons. Anyway, I doubt Sadaam or even Hitler would do that... Amin, idunno... anyone with a freezer full of his enemies' heads he'd "take out and talk to" sometimes, ya gotta wonder. |
Ron White |
| Edited by - ronnywhite on 12/06/2005 00:29:04 |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 12/06/2005 : 01:00:11 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Siberia
Bush is like Hitler, but he doesn't have the finesse of Hitler, or the smarts, or even the bloody rhetoric to keep troops cool.
No way. Hitler manipulated millions. Bush is an amateur in that category. Bush's buddies do the manipulating with the propaganda and the talking points memos. There is just no comparison to Hitler. |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 12/06/2005 : 01:11:01 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by ronnywhite
quote:
Originally posted by Scotty
If Saadam is to be compared to anyone in history , I think it should be Stalin
In principle- I agree, but in practice- there's no comparison... in terms of the scope of his brutality Saadam seems closer to maybe Amin (of Uganda notoriety) ...
Definitely. The only reason anyone is comparing Saddam to the great evil men of the last century is because of the Republican Party hype and maybe because of the Kuwait invasion. There have been hundreds of murderous dictators in recent history and some have invaded their neighbors. Saddam is pretty average when you look objectively at the facts.
Somoza in Nicaragua, Trujillo in the Dominican Republic, Papa Doc in Haiti, the 14 familes in El Salvador, Pol Pot, and many many African dictators like Idi Amin all reach Saddam's level without question. Maybe they didn't have as much oil and the results of having oil, but that's the main difference. In fact, Pol Pot rises much closer to Hitler than Saddam.
Stalin and Hitler were just on a scale so much larger than these other petty creeps. As was Mao in China, though Mao's re-education camps are much less known for the cruelty that occurred there. |
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