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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
 Posted - 12/06/2005 : 09:30:22
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Holy crap! Here's the story about the beating: http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/news/local/13336260.htm
Here's basically what has happened:
-Paul Mirecki, a religious studies prof at the U of Kansas proposed and was going to teach a class called, "Special Topics in Religion: Intelligent Design, Creationism and other Religious Mythologies".
-The class started controversy among conservative Christians in Kansas.
-On the private email listserve of the student group SOMA (Society of Open Minded Atheists and Agnostics) Mirecki referred to his critics as "fundies" and said the class would be a slap to "their big fat face." Mirecki is also SOMA's faculty advisor.
-His comment got into the public and apparently added enough fire to the controversy that he had to request the class be cancelled. (Even though it was perfectly in his rights to make the comment just as a Christian prof who is a faculty advisor for a Christian student group is within their rights to make a similarly critical comment about atheists.)
-Mirecki was tailgated and then beaten by two guys in a pickup truck who made references to the ID class.
Is there any hope for Kansas?
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"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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Edited by - marfknox on 12/06/2005 09:31:00
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 12/06/2005 : 09:55:56 [Permalink]
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It has been briefly touched upon in this thread.
But it's all ok 'cause they were doin' it for Jesus.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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pleco
SFN Addict
USA
2998 Posts |
Posted - 12/06/2005 : 10:14:47 [Permalink]
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| I thought christians were the only persecuted group in the USA? |
by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart. |
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 12/06/2005 : 10:20:37 [Permalink]
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| One of my friends from Kansas who knows Mirecki says that the letters to the editor in newspapers have gotten ridiculous, some claiming that Mirecki staged the beating to make Christians look bad. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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GeeMack
SFN Regular
USA
1093 Posts |
Posted - 12/06/2005 : 11:19:28 [Permalink]
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Sounds like a hate crime to me. Apparently these guys have so little faith in their god delusion that they feel threatened when someone proposes to explain how it is based on a myth. People like this are dangerous. When they are brought before the legal system, we can only hope they are removed from society to avoid any more of the damage that these particular Christians might cause.
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 12/06/2005 : 18:19:23 [Permalink]
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| I wouldn't call it a hate crime since I don't think they beat him up because he was an atheist. Rather, they beat him up because he had tried to teach a class against their beliefs and had said insulting things about people who hold their beliefs. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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Randy
SFN Regular
USA
1990 Posts |
Posted - 12/06/2005 : 18:47:48 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by marfknox
I wouldn't call it a hate crime since I don't think they beat him up because he was an atheist. Rather, they beat him up because he had tried to teach a class against their beliefs and had said insulting things about people who hold their beliefs.
No doubt they'd say they were just being 'Instruments of god'. The nematodes. |
"We are all connected; to each other biologically, to the earth chemically, to the rest of the universe atomically."
"So you're made of detritus [from exploded stars]. Get over it. Or better yet, celebrate it. After all, what nobler thought can one cherish than that the universe lives within us all?"
-Neil DeGrasse Tyson |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 12/06/2005 : 20:08:21 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by marfknox
I wouldn't call it a hate crime since I don't think they beat him up because he was an atheist. Rather, they beat him up because he had tried to teach a class against their beliefs and had said insulting things about people who hold their beliefs.
That's like saying "I don't think they beat him up because he was a homosexual. Rather, they beat him up because he had tried to come onto them in a bar when they were with friends who don't believe in the homosexual lifestyle."
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
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woolytoad
Skeptic Friend
313 Posts |
Posted - 12/06/2005 : 21:13:00 [Permalink]
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quote:
Is there any hope for Kansas?
Having watched the PBS Series on Evolution, all we need is another space race. |
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 12/06/2005 : 21:43:40 [Permalink]
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That's like saying "I don't think they beat him up because he was a homosexual. Rather, they beat him up because he had tried to come onto them in a bar when they were with friends who don't believe in the homosexual lifestyle."
You're right. I'm probably confused about how hate crimes are defined. If a white Christian racist kills a civil rights leader for their political actions, and the victim happens to also be a white Christian, is it a hate crime or not? If so, then I guess this might be a hate crime.
But are pro-science-education people really our own group that needs special protection under the law? We're not a religious, ethnic or racial group, so does this mean that hate crimes can extend to any group of people who happen to hold similar political views? If a bunch of Democrats get together and beat up some Green Party members is it a hate crime?
Or how about non-political opinions? If those two thugs had heard the prof say something bad about their favorite baseball team, and then had followed him in their truck and beat him up, should that be punished more or less or equally harshly as what they really did?
Personally I think hate crime legislation opens up a whole new ugly can of worms that really shouldn't be opened. Punishments should be given according with circumstances, but that should be decided by a judge, not some vague, blanket law.
Oops, I'm ranting. Sorry. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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| Edited by - marfknox on 12/06/2005 21:44:01 |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 12/06/2005 : 22:55:34 [Permalink]
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quote:
But are pro-science-education people really our own group that needs special protection under the law?
Atheists and agnostics are a minority. The professor is an atheist, the guys who kicked his ass were doing it because of his atheistic views.
Its a hate crime.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2005 : 11:58:14 [Permalink]
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A hate crime is when you single the person out because of their race or group without really being concerned about anything from that individual specifically. Excuses you make like, "he came on to me", do not come into it. But something like this would be a bit of a gray area. If someone shoots Martin L King because he's an activist for a group the shooter hates, it falls into the hate crime category, but if you beat up your neighbor, because you hate blacks and he's a black, it might fall more on the side of a two individuals who know each other, regardless of why one hates the other.
I think the fact that you get a group to go along strictly because you all hate what the guy said, makes it a very clear hate crime. If you had said, come with me to attack this guy who hit my friend, that wouldn't fit the definition.
It is incredible how Neanderthal like all these anti-evolutionists are. |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2005 : 14:38:32 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by H. Humbert
quote:
Originally posted by marfknox
I wouldn't call it a hate crime since I don't think they beat him up because he was an atheist. Rather, they beat him up because he had tried to teach a class against their beliefs and had said insulting things about people who hold their beliefs.
That's like saying "I don't think they beat him up because he was a homosexual. Rather, they beat him up because he had tried to come onto them in a bar when they were with friends who don't believe in the homosexual lifestyle."
If I hear the words "Atheist Panic" as a defense for this, I'm holding you personally responsible.
(As if that'll do jack squat)
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Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2005 : 16:13:46 [Permalink]
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The more I think about this incident, the more I am reminded of the murder of Dutch filmmaker Theo van Gogh. He too spoke out openly against religious extremism. Only in his case, it cost him his life. But really, aren't the two attacks strikingly similar both in motive and mentality?
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
| Edited by - H. Humbert on 12/07/2005 18:41:56 |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2005 : 18:38:33 [Permalink]
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quote:
It is incredible how Neanderthal like all these anti-evolutionists are.
Don't insult the neandertal by comparing them to religious whackos!
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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