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NubiWan
Skeptic Friend
USA
424 Posts |
 Posted - 01/21/2006 : 10:54:42
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As George Dubya sallies forth to reveal himself as the despot he always has been, supported by his allies, the GOP party of treason, the religious wrong, and the corporate powers of corruption, a single most articulate objection is near completely ignored by our corperately owned and operated "fifth estate." This cartel of tyranny has the announced objective to twist, shred, and totally mutilate the American democratic republic and its constitution, beyond recognition of those oft quoted "founding fathers." Having no ideal of what "despot," or "tyranny," actually means, the great American body politic, burps and rushes to tune in "desperate housewives." Benito Mussolini said, "Fascism should more properly be called 'corporatism" since it is the marriage of government and corporate power." Having caught a rebroadcast this morning on C-span, was moved to post in SFN's political forum, at least one mention of a now, "senior statesman's" latest address upon our times...
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/01/16/AR2006011600779.html
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
 Posted - 01/22/2006 : 01:17:02 [Permalink]
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Interestingly, in some TV interview I was watching recently the news expert stated that the only place any real reporting is going on now is in print media.
I know you mean for this thread to be about the Gore speech but I couldn't help but notice how on the TV news they put Carl Rove on over and over giving his opening sound bite for the next round of elections, the TV news is still repeating the very distorted comment about Abramoff giving money to just as many Democrats as Republicans, and on and on and on distorting everything like all the stations are following the FOX lead. Lou Dobbs even repeated a few times yesterday something about the "liberal media" and he meant it.
And here is a reinforcement of that news expert's comment, Al Gore's very good and well presented speech in the paper. Not on TV, just in the paper. I'm getting very concerned about the total propaganda war that has taken over TV news stations. Just what is going on?
Gore's speech was radical but I have to say, I actually agree. |
| Edited by - beskeptigal on 01/22/2006 01:18:59 |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2006 : 09:52:55 [Permalink]
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Why does Gore have any more credibility than Bush?
Like Nixon, Clinton Gore and Bush won't get in trouble for the millions they've worked to impoverish and kill outside of the U.S., nor the millions they've worked to impoverish inside the U.S.
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I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2006 : 03:12:00 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Gorgo
Why does Gore have any more credibility than Bush?
Like Nixon, Clinton Gore and Bush won't get in trouble for the millions they've worked to impoverish and kill outside of the U.S., nor the millions they've worked to impoverish inside the U.S.
Huh???
Answer to first question: Gore has a brain.
Response to second statement, despite what the Republican propaganda machine puts out trying to say the Democrats are everything negative the Republicans keep getting caught at, and despite Nadar claiming both parties were corporate whores, it just ain't so. And anyone who thinks we'd be in this horrendous situation had Gore or Kerry been elected (and I'm not sure they weren't but they aren't in office) is a fool.
Iran is about to go nuclear and use its oil leverage to do so. We are in a quagmire of a civil war in Iraq which clearly we don't belong in. There has been no effort of this administration to move the country off oil dependence. The admin has rolled back worker safety laws with the consequences now beginning to show up. (And it isn't just a few mine worker deaths, BTW. I happen to be in the field of occupational health (COHN-S). In addition to specializing in occupational infectious disease, I also know a lot about the regulations.) The corruption at the top is the worst it's been in many years. The last Supreme Court choice is going to damage the country for years to come. And the news media propaganda machine has grown like a cancer on the country to use Nixon's terminology.
I have followed politics pretty closely since the Nixon era including educating myself about all of our horrible interventions in third world countries. Nixon, Reagan and Bush Jr, along with Woodrow Wilson, BTW, have been the worst in history for screwing the world's peasants.
Clinton had a decent track record even though the World Trade Organization agreement wasn't his best action. Gore was never in charge so you can only judge by his character. I'd take Gore any day over the foul person in charge today. |
| Edited by - beskeptigal on 01/23/2006 03:12:33 |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2006 : 03:14:05 [Permalink]
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| Just which 3rd world populations did Clinton trash? |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2006 : 05:39:46 [Permalink]
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The Clinton administration if responsible for the deaths of at least hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people in Iraq. The Clinton administration is responsible for its part in NATO's destruction of Yugoslavia. The Clinton administration bombed a much-needed pharmaceutical company in Sudan. And so on.
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I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2006 : 14:31:02 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Gorgo
The Clinton administration if responsible for the deaths of at least hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people in Iraq. The Clinton administration is responsible for its part in NATO's destruction of Yugoslavia. The Clinton administration bombed a much-needed pharmaceutical company in Sudan. And so on.
The Iraq embargo pales in comparison to the Iraq war. And from the look of things, it wasn't being enforced by France or Germany. So I disagree there that Clinton decisions were the major force causing the damage in Iraq. You cannot discount the manipulation of the population by Saddam for his personal gain as part of the cause.
Destruction of Yugoslavia? Excuse me? Was there not a Serbian driven genocide in progress when we intervened? Try this timeline.
I don't know enough about the pharmacy plant because what we do know was tainted by Republican propaganda which during the Clinton admin was fiercely claiming everything Clinton did was wrong whether it was or not. I suggest reading Richard Clark's account in "Against All Enemies" about Clinton's decisions over the Balkins, and the single attacks on Al Qaeda positions. |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2006 : 17:07:53 [Permalink]
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The sanctions would not have existed without the United States. It was Clinton and Albright that kept them going for years. It was Bush I's administration that destroyed the infrastructure, but it was Clinton that made sure that the damage hurt everyone in Iraq. Saddam manipulated? Sure. Who put Saddam more in charge than he was before? The sanctions. Who wanted the sanctions? Clinton and Albright. Pales in comparison? Almost weekly bombings, sometimes daily, hundreds of thousands if not millions of deaths?
Serbian genocide? You look the other way when it comes to Clinton's genocide, but you don't even acknowledge that the idea of Serbian genocide is just sad? Read Diana Johnstone and Michael Parenti. Find some evidence to dispute what they say. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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NubiWan
Skeptic Friend
USA
424 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2006 : 09:20:16 [Permalink]
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Well nice thread hijack job, Gorgo. I started this thread in the hopes that more would actually give Gore's address a read. For one i think he fairly well nailed the "current" threat to the american democracy by the Bushites, right on the head. I've come to give you a begrudging benefit of the doubt over the years, Gorgo, but if its too hard for you to break your 'bash Clinton' habit, please start your own thread on the subject. There are many republicans out there with the same affliction, who will gladly join you. |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2006 : 11:10:37 [Permalink]
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quote:
Who put Saddam more in charge than he was before?
And the gorgo moronathon continues in yet another thread.
Who PUT Saddam in power to begin with?
Oh, yeah... lets see.... G. H. W. Bush when he was head of the CIA under Reagan.
Who armed the people who eventually became the Taliban? Reagan and G. H. W. Bush.
Who financed militias and geurilla fighters all over the world, supplied arms to them, and set them loose to rape, pillage, mudrer, and destroy anyone they didn't like? Reagan and G. H. W. Bush.
Get a fucking clue about reality before you jump in here trying to say that democrats, Clinton in particular, are anything close to what passes for a republican these days.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2006 : 12:08:12 [Permalink]
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| Yes, well post something that Saddam or Osama posted and see if I give a shit about that either. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2006 : 12:58:10 [Permalink]
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quote:
Get a fucking clue about reality before you jump in here trying to say that democrats, Clinton in particular, are anything close to what passes for a republican these days.
The point of your post, except to show that you're a bitter person is what? Was I telling you that Bush was not a criminal? No. What I said was that they are all criminals, and you've not been able to refute that at all. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2006 : 15:51:33 [Permalink]
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| Well, where do I begin Gorgo? In another thread. Give me a bit of time to put some evidence together for you about Clinton. |
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