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Siberia
SFN Addict
Brazil
2322 Posts |
 Posted - 02/03/2006 : 14:05:34 [Permalink]
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Yep, what she said.
And just because I consider something natural (abortion, abandoning your young, killing), doesn't mean I consider it moral, or even the right to do. Don't put words in my mouth, pretty boy. |
"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa
"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
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ronnywhite
SFN Regular
501 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2006 : 14:15:11 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Valiant Dancer
[br...is played up by the media, that they are the major problem.
What I assume (emphasized this was thus just an opinion) is based on media (nothing else to base it on, other than being unimpressed with my personal observence of the Catholic organization in significant part.) You seem to suggest they're scapegoating the homosexuals as such, which would be consistent with my assessment of some. Wouldn't be surprising. Seems like a pretty shady outfit, as I mentioned. |
Ron White |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9696 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2006 : 14:31:13 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Bill scott
quote:
Originally posted by GeeMack
I also don't judge groups of people about whom I know nothing, based simply on the organizations with which they choose to associate, like you do.
Sure you do, and why would you not? If their is a group of adults who sponsor a website, in secret, that is in favor of decriminalizing sex between adults/children then I have no problem making a judgement to condemn this. If you do then that is your problem.
Just as you judge whole groups of people all day long on SFN that do not conform to your worldview.
While I cannot speak for GeeMack, I can say that it is inappropriate for me to judge other people ("Judge thee not, lest you yourself be judged"). Yet I involuntarily do, and that is of concern to me. I like to think of myself free from prejudice. However, I feel that is in my right to judge people by their own standard. Like I judge Christians by the standards taught in the Bible. If they preach the Bible, they better damn well live by biblical standard as well, or I'll judge them to be hypocritical.
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2006 : 15:11:38 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal
quote:
Originally posted by HalfMooner
Could we please consider closing this thread, to force a move to the correct thread? (Unless Beskeptigal thinks the original topic is still salvagable here, which I doubt.)
You guys are sweet. It turned out Snake didn't move his O'Relly arguments here and Bill has several threads that all include the ACLU stuff so now the whole thing is a mess. .
I defer to the forum admin to fix or ignore as they wish.
I think we've got a workable plan to move the NAMBLA conversation to the appropriate thread.
As for O'Reilly, he doesn't know how to take no for an answer and he used (as a joke or as a serious offer) something that business culture has staunchly advised to be highly inappropriate. An offer that would be appropriate only to someone with which one has an established sexual history.
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Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2006 : 15:29:30 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Siberia
Yep, what she said.
And just because I consider something natural (abortion, abandoning your young, killing), doesn't mean I consider it moral, or even the right to do. Don't put words in my mouth, pretty boy.
Since this thread is haywire anyway, I think it's fascinating that kangaroos naturally can and do purposefully abort their fetuses under stress. They're apparently constantly pregnant with one on the teet or in the oven so to speak so when the going gets tough, they toss the one they can reach. God's own abortion plan. |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2006 : 18:41:59 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by ronnywhite
RE this homosexual/child molester issue, I wouldn't have any reason to believe homosexuals are more likely to do such things, but I think those who become priests might be (admittedly, this is pure speculation.) First, an inordinate number of the (male) homosexuals I've met were screwed-up people... they tended to be heavy boozers and annoying loudmouths, and their personalities reminded me of the personalities of women with psychological problems. Yet I think a vast majority of the homosexuals are most likely better-adjusted and just going about their jobs and lives, and don't publicly blow-off at the mouth about their sexual lives and such, so I wouldn't know what goes on in their personal lives or bedrooms (which is good because I don't care, and I don't want to know.) In other words, the only reason I knew the ones I encountered were homosexuals was that they were publicly explicit about it because they were neurotics and drunken asses, and it would be a mistake to make assumptions about most homosexuals based upon what I saw in those guys, or likewise the exhibitionist screwballs in gay pride parades shown on the news throwing around condoms while dressed like x-rated porn freaks. I think noticing that kind of character (and generalizing) is what probably leads a lot of other heterosexual people to erroneously believe homosexuals tend to be perverts or psychologically twisted.
Yet regarding priests, there are aspects of clergy jobs that have probably always made them appealing to some of "unconventional" sexual orientations- most commonly meaning homosexuals- and it seems to me perverts and malicious nuts might be over-represented among homosexuals who take up the clergy as opposed to heterosexuals who do, since their sexual orientation (as opposed to their Faith, whether it's delusional or not) will more often be their primary motivation for taking that path. And, to do so for that reason suggests to me they're probably less well-adjusted than homosexuals who pursue traditional jobs of their choosing. I think that's why we seem to (and probably do) have so many perverts among priests.
I'm sure there are ethical homosexuals who are priests, and they probably hate the scumbags in their ranks who molest kids even more than the public at large does, because the kind of moral corruption, sinister criminality, and ethical bankruptcy displayed by those cruds hurts them worse as a group than it does anyone else except the victims. As such, I think the Vatican making an official effort now to flush out and jettison the homosexuals might be a good idea- even though it's unfair to some- because there are likely a lot more of the dangerous wackos among them, and figuring out which ones are sociopaths could be pretty tough considering that they've managed to circumvent the filters designed to prevent such deviants from infiltrating the organization to begin with... to get that far, they had to be consummate actors. In my perspective, that's more a matter of protecting the public than applauding an organization I think is otherwise pretty shady in a historical sense, and in other ways. From what I've seen of them, their leaders aren't any different in mindset than any other randomly selected group of businessmen, and some probably couldn't give a damn less, except that they can't afford any more bad press. Might be more of that type in the higher echelons, in fact, since the Catholic Church generally seems to be a pretty racket-infested outfit these days (assuming it was even any different.)
Wow! I must say that I really found your post interesting. You made some very valid points. |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2006 : 18:45:14 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Siberia
Yep, what she said.
And just because I consider something natural (abortion, abandoning your young, killing), doesn't mean I consider it moral, or even the right to do. Don't put words in my mouth, pretty boy.
I thought that is what you said? That murder etc... was natural.
Pretty boy? Aw shucks mam, your making me blush... |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2006 : 18:52:57 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
quote:
Originally posted by Bill scott
quote:
Originally posted by GeeMack
I also don't judge groups of people about whom I know nothing, based simply on the organizations with which they choose to associate, like you do.
Sure you do, and why would you not? If their is a group of adults who sponsor a website, in secret, that is in favor of decriminalizing sex between adults/children then I have no problem making a judgement to condemn this. If you do then that is your problem.
Just as you judge whole groups of people all day long on SFN that do not conform to your worldview.
While I cannot speak for GeeMack, I can say that it is inappropriate for me to judge other people ("Judge thee not, lest you yourself be judged"). Yet I involuntarily do, and that is of concern to me. I like to think of myself free from prejudice. However, I feel that is in my right to judge people by their own standard. Like I judge Christians by the standards taught in the Bible. If they preach the Bible, they better damn well live by biblical standard as well, or I'll judge them to be hypocritical.
However, I feel that is in my right to judge people by their own standard. Like I judge Christians by the standards taught in the Bible. If they preach the Bible, they better damn well live by biblical standard as well, or I'll judge them to be hypocritical.
(bill) I don't have a problem with that. I think all groups, or indaviduals should, at the bare min., live up to the standards that they use to judge others.  |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2006 : 18:58:16 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Valiant Dancer
quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal
quote:
Originally posted by HalfMooner
Could we please consider closing this thread, to force a move to the correct thread? (Unless Beskeptigal thinks the original topic is still salvagable here, which I doubt.)
You guys are sweet. It turned out Snake didn't move his O'Relly arguments here and Bill has several threads that all include the ACLU stuff so now the whole thing is a mess. .
I defer to the forum admin to fix or ignore as they wish.
I think we've got a workable plan to move the NAMBLA conversation to the appropriate thread.
As for O'Reilly, he doesn't know how to take no for an answer and he used (as a joke or as a serious offer) something that business culture has staunchly advised to be highly inappropriate. An offer that would be appropriate only to someone with which one has an established sexual history.
It really surprises me that Bill O and Bill C don't get along any better. The storys those two could tell each other sitting at the bar.... |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13481 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2006 : 21:05:39 [Permalink]
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quote:
ronnywhite:
I think the Vatican making an official effort now to flush out and jettison the homosexuals might be a good idea- even though it's unfair to some- because there are likely a lot more of the dangerous wackos among them, and figuring out which ones are sociopaths could be pretty tough considering that they've managed to circumvent the filters designed to prevent such deviants from infiltrating the organization to begin with...
Great, this will just leave the pedophiles, most of who identify and heterosexual…
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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ronnywhite
SFN Regular
501 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2006 : 06:09:44 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Kil
Great, this will just leave the pedophiles, most of who identify and heterosexual…
Well, I don't know that I'd go that far... I'll accept Valliant Dancer's suggestion that I was misled on the stats by our (pious and God-fearing) media, yet I'd have to look at some (reliable) numbers before I concluded I was entirely wrong. Anyway, I don't like surprises first thing in the morning and I haven't even had my coffee yet, so I'm glad you disagreed with me as usual  |
Ron White |
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Siberia
SFN Addict
Brazil
2322 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2006 : 06:50:19 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Bill scott
quote:
Originally posted by Siberia
Yep, what she said.
And just because I consider something natural (abortion, abandoning your young, killing), doesn't mean I consider it moral, or even the right to do. Don't put words in my mouth, pretty boy.
I thought that is what you said? That murder etc... was natural.
Pretty boy? Aw shucks mam, your making me blush...
Yep, natural as death, which doesn't mean it's moral. See my point? Natural, but not necessarily moral. I don't condone murder, not at all, pretty boy Natural, in my conception, does not equal moral. If it does in yours, then it's your problem.
See, my point of view is, if it doesn't hurt anyone, then do whatever floats your boat. Go pray, go swim, go dance the polka or go have sex with your hot gay boy/girlfriend, I could care less, as long as you aren't hurting anyone (a pedophile, heterosexual or not, is harming children, therefore he/she/it needs punishment. Same with a murderer, rapist, whatever crime you may think of.) or depriving anyone from their rights according to human law. |
"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa
"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2006 : 10:15:38 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Siberia
quote:
quote:
Yep, natural as death, which doesn't mean it's moral.
Who decides what is moral in your world?
quote:
See my point? Natural, but not necessarily moral.
But who gets to decide what is moral and what is unmoral?
quote:
I don't condone murder, not at all, pretty boy Natural, in my conception, does [i]not equal moral. [/quote]
[/quote]
But if I take some guys food walking out of McDonalds what is different about that then cat taking another cats food. That happens in nature all the time and people are just animals right? But you said we have morals. Do other animals have morals? If so who gets to decide their morals. If only homans have morals does not that make us different then the animals?
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"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13481 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2006 : 11:38:24 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by ronnywhite
quote:
Originally posted by Kil
Great, this will just leave the pedophiles, most of who identify and heterosexual…
Well, I don't know that I'd go that far... I'll accept Valliant Dancer's suggestion that I was misled on the stats by our (pious and God-fearing) media, yet I'd have to look at some (reliable) numbers before I concluded I was entirely wrong. Anyway, I don't like surprises first thing in the morning and I haven't even had my coffee yet, so I'm glad you disagreed with me as usual
LOL! Oh come one Ron, I'm not that predictable. Anyhow, I will try to track down the sources.
And while we are on the subject, in my view, and this is only speculation, I think one reason some men become priests is because they feel guilty about their sexual orientation or possible deviance and think that a vow of celibacy and the rigors of the priesthood will keep them from acting out on what they may view (and sometimes correctly so) an impulse or compulsion that they feel they need to control.
Going into the priesthood with that as a prime motivation is probably a prescription for failure…
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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