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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
 Posted - 02/09/2006 : 13:18:14 [Permalink]
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First, it's quite true that nobody questioned my mental state, in text, during the chat. That was very polite of you all. ; ) But I kinda got an impression of what people were thinking, sort of "Theory of Mind" stuff on my part, or intuition, or projection. Or maybe, the creative power of paranoia.
Anyway, I do realize I was the person making claims of the extraordinary, in suggesting that I was worried about an event that has never yet happened in US history. By good skeptical tradition, the burden of proof is rightly upon me and my fellow Paranoids (welcome aboard, GeeMack!). And real evidence of any kind is going to be very thin on the ground.
Oh, aid me spirits of Darwin, Einstein, and Sagan! I actually need to discuss two words that are no doubt very controversial among skeptics: Intuition, and Conspiracy. Crank buzzwords! Because my main "evidence" is my intuition that a conspiracy may be in the wings.
I define intuition as a persistent hunch, based upon many unrelated data, many of which may be, like the intuitive process itself, unconscious. It's not a psychic ability. I think everyone has intuition, and sometimes relies upon it. It's not rational in the sense that it follows visible logic, but I submit it's real, and has profound evolutionary value. It is politics, the softest of non-sciences, which we're talking about in this thread. Intuition and Theory of Mind are probably the primary mental tools used in politics.
Conspiracy, the bugaboo of the truly paranoid. Paranoids see so many people conspiring against them that their actions often create those conspiracies in reality. Yet real conspiracies also do happen, over and over in history. Look at the 2000 Presidential election in the USA. I think someone would have to be crazy not to see that a real conspiracy manipulated that one.
So I admit I ain't got much: Only my intuition that a conspiracy might halt democracy in this country. The stuff of crank ravings. And I repeat, I think such a coup probably won't happen. (If it did take place, I think it would be more on the line of a declared "state of emergency" than an attempt to repeal the 22nd Amndment. And I also think such a coup would fail, due to massive resistance by We the People, and by pro-Constitution generals stepping in.)
But, of course, any real antidemocratic conspiracy of the magnitude I worry about would require some most extraordinary elements to be in in place in advance.
Such as, say: A President stupid enough to try, a large and energized theocratic movement marching in lock-step, perhaps a war that could be made an excuse for a "state of emergency," an iron-fisted Defense Secretary who thinks he can contol the Generals, a loyal but ignorant Attorney General willing to use all his powers to aid the coup, control of Congress, and control of the Supreme Court.
A ridiculous set of hypothetical circumstances, right?
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 02/09/2006 : 13:29:11 [Permalink]
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Beskeptigal proclaimed:
quote:
Don't know how old you are but, if you were around during the Nixon affair, there was a lot of talk about this very thing. It didn't happen though.
I think Nixon was nearly as bad a President as one could wish for, but on the plus side, he was a clever SOB. He was smart enough to know that he could not get away with any kind of coup. And even though a profoundly evil man, I think he had more basic ethics than Bush. Bush is a hollow shell of a man, always looking for the main chance, and very stupid. Which makes him even more dangerous than Tricky Dick. (Someday, I'll tell my peronal story here about an event from when Nixon was running for Governor against Pat Brown here, after having been beaten by Kennedy.)
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 02/09/2006 : 14:33:30 [Permalink]
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Yeh, but we don't got "Nixon to kick around any more." A pity, really -- Bush makes me nostalgic for the slimy, bastard.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 02/09/2006 : 15:44:40 [Permalink]
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filthy foamed: quote:
Yeh, but we don't got "Nixon to kick around any more." A pity, really -- Bush makes me nostalgic for the slimy, bastard.
A sad State we live in, where such a statment is true.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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Stargirl
Skeptic Friend
USA
94 Posts |
Posted - 02/09/2006 : 21:05:59 [Permalink]
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As despicable as Nixon was he was at least honorable enough to do what was best for the country and resign. Sadly I don't think the same can't be said of the current occupant of the White House,
Bush firmly believes and his advisors all seem to agree that he is above the law. With that in mind I can easily see him not just delaying but calling off an election. As for congress impeaching him if he did that what is to prevent him from disbanding congress? I don't think the constitution gives the president that power but he does consider his presidential powers to be supreme in his war on terrorism. If congress refused to disband would he call out the military to force them to disband? And a bigger question is would the military obey that order from their Commander in Chief?
By the way the other night I caught the tail end of a discussion on Air America radio about the Halliburton subsidiary KBR being given a contract to start building detention centers in the U.S. for use during a national emergency. Anyone know more about that?
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If God did not exist, it would be necessary to invent him - Voltaire |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 02/09/2006 : 21:34:14 [Permalink]
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Stargirl dished out: quote:
Bush firmly believes and his advisors all seem to agree that he is above the law. With that in mind I can easily see him not just delaying but calling off an election. As for congress impeaching him if he did that what is to prevent him from disbanding congress? I don't think the constitution gives the president that power but he does consider his presidential powers to be supreme in his war on terrorism. If congress refused to disband would he call out the military to force them to disband? And a bigger question is would the military obey that order from their Commander in Chief?
Welcome to the SFN Paranoid Faction, Stargirl!
Stargirl further typed: quote:
By the way the other night I caught the tail end of a discussion on Air America radio about the Halliburton subsidiary KBR being given a contract to start building detention centers in the U.S. for use during a national emergency. Anyone know more about that?
This seems to be, at least publicly, being touted as detention facilities for immigrants, rather than for, say, Democrats. I did some Googling and got this:
quote:
HOUSTON (Reuters) - Halliburton Co. (HAL.N: Quote, Profile, Research) said on Tuesday the U.S. Department of Homeland Security had awarded its KBR unit a contract worth up to $385 million to provide emergency immigration detention and processing facilities.
The Reuters article's URL is:
http://today.reuters.com/news/newsArticleSearch.aspx?storyID=311721+24-Jan-2006+RTRS&srch=Halliburton
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 02/10/2006 : 10:09:16 [Permalink]
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Folks, it's really bothering me that people have not so far torn me a new one for my presidential coup rant above. Come on, folks, that rant spat in the faces of all good skeptics, using terms like "intuition" and "conspiracy," and admittedly offering no real evidence! What part of "crank conspiracy theory" do you guys not understand? Do I have to start talking about all the years I've worked on my theory, or begin TYPING IN CAPS TO DEMONSTRATE THE IMPORTANCE OF MY IDEAS? How high a Crank Index must I score before someone will demolish my "theory"? Believe me, people, this is one crank theory that I want to see completely discredited.
I can think of two reasons for nobody attacking my rant, and neither is particularly comforting:
1) I have become the prime pariah paranoid crank of SFN. Sad, perhaps, but maybe that would be a very good thing, compared to the next explanation.
2) Skeptics can find no convincing argument against the idea that President Bush might decide not to step down in 2009. And that thought really scares me.
Come on, people, please show how I am mistaken!
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 02/10/2006 : 10:37:47 [Permalink]
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Ok, ok, gimmie a little time to take a nap and coorinnate my mind, no easy task, that, then I will take you to task. Anything (within reason) to please...
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 02/10/2006 : 10:41:02 [Permalink]
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filthy promised:
quote:
Ok, ok, gimmie a little time to take a nap and coorinnate my mind, no easy task, that, then I will take you to task. Anything (within reason) to please...
Thank you, thank you! I await, breath bated.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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GeeMack
SFN Regular
USA
1093 Posts |
Posted - 02/10/2006 : 11:27:47 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by HalfMooner...
1) I have become the prime pariah paranoid crank of SFN. Sad, perhaps, but [...]
Regarding this concern, if it puts your mind at ease (or not), you can't even compete. 
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 02/10/2006 : 11:49:09 [Permalink]
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GeeMack disappointed: quote:
Regarding this concern, if it puts your mind at ease (or not), you can't even compete.
Dammit. Can't get ANY kind of recognition around here.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 02/10/2006 : 11:51:59 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by HalfMooner
Folks, it's really bothering me that people have not so far torn me a new one for my presidential coup rant above. Come on, folks, that rant spat in the faces of all good skeptics, using terms like "intuition" and "conspiracy," and admittedly offering no real evidence! What part of "crank conspiracy theory" do you guys not understand? Do I have to start talking about all the years I've worked on my theory, or begin TYPING IN CAPS TO DEMONSTRATE THE IMPORTANCE OF MY IDEAS? How high a Crank Index must I score before someone will demolish my "theory"? Believe me, people, this is one crank theory that I want to see completely discredited.
I can think of two reasons for nobody attacking my rant, and neither is particularly comforting:
1) I have become the prime pariah paranoid crank of SFN. Sad, perhaps, but maybe that would be a very good thing, compared to the next explanation.
1) Nope. You aren't even in the top 10 of paranoid cranks.
quote:
2) Skeptics can find no convincing argument against the idea that President Bush might decide not to step down in 2009. And that thought really scares me.
Come on, people, please show how I am mistaken!
2) We can see the little criminal TRYING to thwart the rule of law. The concern is valid, the mechanism depends on Congress bending over and saying, "stick it in here, Big Boy." Never underestimate the power of Congressional greed. Judging from the political discourse, the Evil Chimp has scared his own party. If he had wider support from Congress, I'd be concerned. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 02/10/2006 : 12:02:07 [Permalink]
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Valiant_Dancer pantomimed: quote:
Judging from the political discourse, the Evil Chimp has scared his own party. If he had wider support from Congress, I'd be concerned
But I'm merely worried he might attempt such a coup. The political realities would only alter the actions of a thinking person. Very stupid people can, and often do, sucker-punch their intellectual superiors, precisely because what they do is illogical and thus unexpected.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 02/10/2006 : 20:06:56 [Permalink]
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As an example of how weird it can sometimes get, when intuition happens:
http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/02/10/political.whodunit.ap/index.html
The news item begins:
quote:
BIRMINGHAM, Alabama (AP) -- More than five years ago, Rod Spraggins made a sensational charge at a candidate forum, publicly accusing a political opponent of murder with nothing to back up the allegation except, it turns out, a vision.
Now police say Spraggins was right.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 02/10/2006 20:07:53 |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2006 : 03:44:29 [Permalink]
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That's weird, HM but I'm inclined to go with the guy knew about the slaying and drew a logical conclusion. If the dreams were true, and if they occurred before the accuser ever met the murderer or heard about the murder, that would be fun to know.
Story is great though, isn't it? |
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