|
|
|
HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
 Posted - 02/10/2006 : 09:38:27
|
Creatures are living in and upon the brains of half of all humans, affecting their behavior, driving some mad! And these brain parasites have been at it for eons.
This may sound like Scientology, or Heinlein's The Puppet Masters, or even an explanation for President Bush's behavior, but it's real science. It's still scary stuff, in the LiveScience article:
http://www.livescience.com/scienceoffiction/060210_technovelgy.html
|
“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
|
|
BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
Posted - 02/10/2006 : 11:07:27 [Permalink]
|
| Its not out of the realm of possibilty, I for one dont underestimate those little buggers we ignore. The lowly malaria virus goes as far to change the hosts body enough to emit an "Im delicious to mosquitos" musk. |
"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History
"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini |
 |
|
|
HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 02/10/2006 : 11:40:24 [Permalink]
|
BigPapaSmurf said: quote:
Its not out of the realm of possibilty, I for one dont underestimate those little buggers we ignore. The lowly malaria virus goes as far to change the hosts body enough to emit an "Im delicious to mosquitos" musk.
Fascinating part in the article about how infected rats lose the fear of cat urine, thus they are eaten so the parasite can be transmitted. Yet this loss of fear can be countered equally well with either antipsychotic drugs, or with drugs that fight the Toxoplasma parasite.
Makes one wonder if infected people are more prone to some sort of predation, too, doesn't it? (A wild thought: I wonder, does infection with Toxoplasma gondii makes humans less resistant to tyrants, for instance? If so, maybe the best way to spread democracy would be to fight Toxoplasma!)
I think the things we're eventually going to learn, as evolutionary theory is elaborated, will be amazing. More information on parasites modifying the behavior of the hosts, genetic information exchanged between even distant species via retroviruses, the real meaning of all that "junk" DNA, how parasitic or symbiotic bacteria became harnessed as mitochondria, on and on.
Darwin was right, but soon more of the fine-print details of evolution will be forthcoming, and will be very interesting.
|
“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 02/10/2006 11:42:12 |
|
|
|
BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
Posted - 02/10/2006 : 12:53:43 [Permalink]
|
| that or Jesus will show up or Neo will end the war. |
"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History
"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini |
|
|
|
Hawks
SFN Regular
Canada
1383 Posts |
Posted - 02/10/2006 : 23:46:00 [Permalink]
|
quote:
The lowly malaria virus ...
The various species of Plasmodium that cause malaria are not viruses. They are eukaryotes.
It's probably no coincidence that both Plasmodium and Toxoplasma can alter behaviour. They are closely related. |
METHINKS IT IS LIKE A WEASEL
It's a small, off-duty czechoslovakian traffic warden! |
| Edited by - Hawks on 02/10/2006 23:57:47 |
|
|
|
BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
Posted - 02/13/2006 : 11:00:07 [Permalink]
|
| pfft, virus - whale, whatever. JK, I guessed as to avoid a ten second search headache. |
"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History
"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini |
| Edited by - BigPapaSmurf on 02/13/2006 11:01:20 |
|
|
|
beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2006 : 02:03:10 [Permalink]
|
OK, I ignored this scifi article until my son told me today they found this parasite that is in the brains of all schizophrenics. So I had to read the article to see what was really going on.
Toxoplasmosis is an infection that is known to cause birth defects if one contracts it while pregnant. Pregnant women are advised not to empty the cat litter box and to be careful around cats. And as I found out after helping de-oil birds on the coast after an oil spill while I was pregnant, birds of prey are also a risk.
The article referred to single behavior changes with toxoplasmosis infected rats. They lost their natural dislike of cat urine. And ants infected with a parasite that needs to be eaten by cows again change one behavior, they cling to grass. This is hardly the conscious control of behavior that the title implies or that my son seems to think is occurring.
As to the schizophrenia, that may be a breakthrough in that disease but keep in mind they are referring to an infection in utero, in other words in addition to the birth defects we know toxoplasmosis causes, it may be causing additional as yet unrecognized disorders. Schizophrenia is not likely to be developing in children or adults not affected as a fetus when certain brain structures are developing. If it did, the epidemiological pattern would have revealed it long ago. |
|
|
|
HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2006 : 03:53:33 [Permalink]
|
Be party pooped: quote:
This is hardly the conscious control of behavior that the title implies or that my son seems to think is occurring.
Nothing a gang of mad scienists couldn't fix, with a little genetic toxoplasmosis engineering.
Seriously, though, it's going to be interesting to know the details. In which, often, is the Devil.
|
“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 02/14/2006 03:53:59 |
|
|
|
sts60
Skeptic Friend
141 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2006 : 08:55:55 [Permalink]
|
This may sound like Scientology, or Heinlein's The Puppet Masters, or even an explanation for President Bush's behavior,...
you forgot the Force!
LiveScience article:According to a recent press release, haloperidol restores the rat's healthy fear of cat urine. In fact, antipsychotic drugs were as effective as pyrimethamine, a drug that specifically eliminates Toxoplasma.
That's crazy, because the article also says that haloperidol flat-out stops the growth of the parasites. It sounds like the tail wagging the dog. I mean,... wow, my first reaction is to simply disbelieve it. Fascinating stuff, and I have the strong feeling that it will get even more eye-popping as the story unfolds.
But maybe that's just the parasite talking. |
|
|
|
beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2006 : 10:54:59 [Permalink]
|
    You may resume your sci-fi thread. |
|
|
|
HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2006 : 13:12:05 [Permalink]
|
Be meowed: quote:
You may resume your sci-fi thread.
Dammit, B, it's pseudoscience, not science fiction!
|
“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
|
|
|
BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2006 : 13:31:35 [Permalink]
|
| Im confused, how is this a Sci-fi thread now. While the their may not be a controler in a normal sense, the fact that the infected would do an action it would normally avoid as a result of the infection is a type of mind control. |
"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History
"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini |
|
|
|
UncleJ
New Member
41 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2006 : 17:40:27 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by BigPapaSmurf
Im confused, how is this a Sci-fi thread now. While the their may not be a controler in a normal sense, the fact that the infected would do an action it would normally avoid as a result of the infection is a type of mind control.
I'm with Pappy on this one. The article in the above link may have stretched the creative bounds a little but the science behind the Toxoplasma studies is not pseudoscience or science fiction. |
"The Church says the Earth is flat. But I know that it is round. For I have seen the shadow on the Moon. And I have more faith in a shadow than in the Church." - F. Magellan
"I can't be a missionary! I don't even believe in Jebus!" - H. Simpson |
|
|
|
H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2006 : 18:27:55 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by BigPapaSmurf
Im confused, how is this a Sci-fi thread now. While the their may not be a controler in a normal sense, the fact that the infected would do an action it would normally avoid as a result of the infection is a type of mind control.
I remember seeing an even more startling example of parasitic "mind control." One parasite had a life-cycle which passed through both insect and mammal species, specifically ants and cows. Ants infected with the parasite acted completely normal in the daytime, performing regular chores with the other members of its colony.
However, come nighttime, the infected ants would leave their sleeping kin in the burrow and crawl outside where they would scale a blade of a grass and, holding themselves upside-down with their strong pincers, spend the night doing a "handstand." This increased the ant's odds of being ingested by a grazing bovine during the night. If come daybreak the ant was still alive, it would crawl down and rejoin the other ants for another day's work.
This seems to me much more bizarre in that, as far as I know, it isn't a behavior an ant would ever engage in on its own, and it would appear to require a greater deal of "mind control" than the simple removal of a previous fear.
Edited to add: Ah, I see the article did mention it and beskeptigal made reference to it, but merely saying the parasite makes ants "cling to grass" seems to be underplaying what I find to be an astonishing change in an animal's normal pattern of behavior.
|
"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
| Edited by - H. Humbert on 02/14/2006 20:30:09 |
|
|
|
Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
|
|
HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2006 : 22:09:50 [Permalink]
|
Just wanted to mention that sometimes fairly complex-seeming animal behaviors are actually quite simple when we really understand them, so a microscopic parasite may not have to alter all that much in order to get behavior that favors it.
Beavers, for instance. It's long been "common sense knowlege" that beavers are not only hard-working, but are also exceptionally talented hydraulic engineers. But a few years ago, experiments showed that the dam-building behavior of beavers was much simpler than it appeared. I'll try to recall what I remember of how this one was figured out.
Scientists set up loudspeakers on beaver dams, playing a recording of rushing water. Beavers loaded twigs and branches onto the speakers, until they were finally muffled. Apparently, beavers have just one instinctive behavior which they use for selecting dam sites, for building dams, and for finding and fixing breaks: "Put wood where you hear water flowing." In effect, the water itself does all the calculations for the beavers. Evolutionary elegance!
So the behavioral changes that the mind-controlling parsites need to make in their hosts may themselves be simple and elegant.
[Edit: I've now found a link which explains the beaver experiment:
http://www.naturealmanac.com/archive/beaver_dams/beaver_dams.html]
|
“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 02/14/2006 22:17:04 |
|
|
 |
|
|
|
Topic Locked
