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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
 Posted - 02/17/2006 : 18:50:05 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by filthy
Here's a nasty, little bit on the topic: quote:
Saudi Arabia's top cleric called on the world's Muslims to reject apologies for the "slanderous" caricatures of Islam's Prophet Mohammed and demanded the authors and publishers of the cartoons be tried and punished, Saudi newspapers reported Saturday.
Thousands of Muslims, meanwhile, took to the streets in London and several other European cities to protest the drawings that were first published in a Danish newspaper in September and recently reprinted in other European publications. One depicted the prophet with a turban shaped like a bomb with a burning fuse.
Who the hell does this Saudi shithead think he is? The reencarnation of Muhammed hisowndamnbself, that he can dictate to other countries?
But, then again, he's not so much different from our home-grown, religious shitheads, is he? Pat 'Assasinate Everybody I Don't Like' Robertson comes to mind right away. Uncomfortable thought, that one is....
My thought was this has a Bush theme in here. The Downing Street memos were essentially a plan to make a request that Saddam would have to refuse then use the refusal as an excuse to invade. (Of course Saddam agreed leaving Bush and Blair scrambling but they just lied their way into the war anyway.)
So here are the clerics demanding the cartoonists be arrested. Fat chance. But the leaders here aren't the ignorant masses they are manipulating. The clerics know full well they are making a demand that cannot be met. It appears they have taken a lesson from the Bush play book. |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 02/17/2006 : 19:09:36 [Permalink]
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B scripted: quote:
So here are the clerics demanding the cartoonists be arrested. Fat chance. But the leaders here aren't the ignorant masses they are manipulating. The clerics know full well they are making a demand that cannot be met. It appears they have taken a lesson from the Bush play book.
I don't think they need to have copied Bush. More likely, both Bush and the jihadi's take their political dirty tricks from the old masters, Machiavelli, Stalin, Hitler, Sun Tsu, etc. Much as modern "channelers" have learned their tricks from old time Spiritualists, who themselves learned from ancient necromancer-priests.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 02/18/2006 : 22:47:33 [Permalink]
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More and more, I think the belief in the Muslim world is that the cartoons does represent a "clash of civilizations," regardless of the mixed views elsewhere.
Now huge riots in Nigeria are ongoing, with 16 deaths, churches burned, and Christians attacked and killed in the streets.
A protester living in England says:
quote:
"What happened should not have happened," said Younas Yousas, 33, a protester from east London.
"Their freedom of speech should be restricted because it hurts our religion. At the end of the day everyone needs to respect others' religions. And we should strive for peace."
Should their religion be "restricted" because it "hurts" non-Muslim's ability to stay alive? No, most of us would say, of course not, but the extreme Islamists fail totally to even try to see the other party's viewpoint. And they may be a majority. This madness is getting more dangerous by the hour.
I'm very concerned that the clash of civilizations will become real, as a world war.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 02/18/2006 22:50:46 |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 02/18/2006 : 23:54:16 [Permalink]
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Here's a theory: What if the timing of igniting the cartoon riots (months after the actual cartoon publication) was deliberately set by jihadist leaders to coincide with the advent of a Hamas leadership of the Palestinians?
Probably jihadists in general see Hamas' ascension to power as a unique opportunity, to amplify upon the jihadi gains in Iraq. Also, the Iranian mullahs may feel the rioting could serve to distract the world at a time when they are both beating the drums of Jew-hating xenophobia and restarting uranium enrichment.
Plus, the extremists among both Shi'ias and Sunnis could be using the riots as part of the intramural competition to show which sect is the most mouth-foamingly "Islamic." With the control of the minds of the entire Muslim world on the line, neither sect can afford to let the other sect out-crazy them.
The delayed timing would be very clever.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 02/19/2006 00:07:50 |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 02/19/2006 : 00:59:02 [Permalink]
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I didn't mean Bush invented the tactic. No way is he or his staff that clever. I merely meant Bush had also used the same tactic.
It amounts to people who want power manipulating the masses they need to manipulate to get it. Just as the Israeli peace process could never happen as the radicals on both sides kept sabotaging any progress, so we have the same going on all over the Muslim world right now. Everywhere you find this rioting continuing, and the supposed justification spouting from everyone interviewed by a news crew, you'll find some one or some group behind it that is benefiting from the disruption of normal life. And these leaders continue to achieve success, in Israel, Palestine, Iraq, and yes, in the US as well.
Bush has benefited from this charade of the war on terror. And people here in the US are just as stupidly sucking up the party line. |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 02/19/2006 : 03:41:43 [Permalink]
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B wrote: quote:
It amounts to people who want power manipulating the masses they need to manipulate to get it. Just as the Israeli peace process could never happen as the radicals on both sides kept sabotaging any progress, so we have the same going on all over the Muslim world right now. Everywhere you find this rioting continuing, and the supposed justification spouting from everyone interviewed by a news crew, you'll find some one or some group behind it that is benefiting from the disruption of normal life. And these leaders continue to achieve success, in Israel, Palestine, Iraq, and yes, in the US as well.
Bush has benefited from this charade of the war on terror. And people here in the US are just as stupidly sucking up the party line.
I agree in general, but with amendments.
I think the example of the jihadi bosses' exploitation of people's religious and nationalist feeling, though qualitatively identical to the tactics used by rightists in the West, is much different quantitatively.
As far as I know, there have been no counter-riots. The "masses" in non-Muslim counties just don't hit the streets and burn middle-eastern bakeries or oriental carpet shops, or to kill Nation of Islam members in retaliation for the deaths of Christians in Nigeria.
And there are other factors, democratic and free-expression traditions, where the is a palpable qualitative difference between the cultures of the non-Muslim and the Muslim "worlds."
It seems to be nearly universally accepted on Islamic streets that any expression that "insults" their Prophet must be suppressed, no matter where in the world it occurs. People in the West, by contrast, pretty much take it for granted that Jews, Christians, Hindus, atheists, and infidels in general are subject to the worst sort of discrimination in the Muslim world. That's clearly objectively worse than "blasphemous" cartoons, but non-Muslims rarely riot about this situation.
Yes, the principles of exploiting ethnic and religious hatred is the same in all lands, but its effectiveness is much, much more limited in countries with democratic traditions.
If it came down to deciding to either give up free expression, or to fight for it against any theocratic movement, I know what choice I would make. Within the US, the primary threat is our home-bred Theofascists. Internationally, it's the jihadis. Any free people can't afford to give an inch to either.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 02/19/2006 : 14:54:57 [Permalink]
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No question there are lots of differences. The tactics of the radical Muslims reflect their own situations. If the right wing Christians were in the same setting, I think we'd see more closely related activities. The Evangelicals here have been funding and working since the 80s to inject themselves into the government here and probably elsewhere in the world. Propaganda is a major tool.
Propaganda is a major tool used to incite the radial Muslims as well.
So in one case you get riots and suicide bombers. In the other you get war and all out destruction within supposed rules of engagement that make you superior, in your mind anyway. Guess where the death toll is higher? |
| Edited by - beskeptigal on 02/19/2006 14:55:38 |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 02/20/2006 : 23:11:04 [Permalink]
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No comment required
From CNN.com:
(http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/02/20/cartoons.protests/index.html)
quote:
Qazi Hussain Mahmad, president of the Muttahida Majlis-i-Amal (MMA) religious party alliance, was arrested in Lahore at the weekend to prevent him leading a rally in the capital, Islamabad, on Sunday.
Police arrested about 400 people in all, including 10 lawmakers, and used tear gas to disperse several hundred demonstrators in an attempt to prevent protests in Islamabad, witnesses and police said.
After chairing an MMA meeting in Islamabad on Monday, he called publication of the cartoons in Europe "part of the clash of civilizations led by (U.S. President George W.) Bush," Reuters reported.
[My bold in above quote.]
One the other hand in the same article, the Foreign Minister of Iran is caling for calm, sort of:
quote:
"We should try to cool down the situation. We do not support any violence," Manouchehr Mottaki said on Monday, according to The Associated Press.
Speaking to reporters in Brussels, where he is meeting European Union officials for talks about his country's controversial nuclear program, Mottaki added that freedom of expression must be exercised with sensitivity and the values of people and nations must be fully respected.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 02/20/2006 23:42:21 |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2006 : 01:44:41 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by HalfMooner
Here's a page that has many thoughtful cartoons about the Muhammed cartoon controversy/war:
http://www.cagle.com/news/Muhammad/9.asp
Those are great! And I love the picture. |
| Edited by - beskeptigal on 02/21/2006 01:45:01 |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2006 : 01:46:54 [Permalink]
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Thanks, B.!
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 02/22/2006 : 00:08:25 [Permalink]
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Here are few more photos of the more peaceful demonstrations in the Cartoon Jihad:
[NOTE: Images hosted at ImageShack often load poorly, so you may need to reload, or click on them, on see them.]
Bangladeshi Islamists freely express themselves against free expression
Jihadi hotty expresses herself
Oops! Turkish Jihadis mistake Swiss flag for Danish
Indeed, but don't Israel! Jordanian Islamists make their point
Bangladesh's jihadists can make a remankable point, too
Muslims in Kenya love those Danish pastries!
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 02/22/2006 01:32:52 |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 02/22/2006 : 01:17:39 [Permalink]
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ABC News has this, about Christian rioters killing Muslims in Nigeria:
http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=1644177&CMP=OTC-RSSFeeds0312
quote:
LAGOS, Nigeria Feb 21, 2006 (AP)— Christian mobs rampaged through a southern Nigerian city Tuesday, burning mosques and killing several people in an outbreak of anti-Muslim violence that followed deadly protests against caricatures of the Prophet Muhammad over the weekend.
Residents and witnesses in the southern, predominantly Christian city of Onitsha said several Muslims with origins in the north were beaten to death by mobs which also burned two mosques there.
"The mosque at the main market has been burnt and I've counted at least six dead bodies on the streets," Izzy Uzor, an Onitsha resident and businessman, told The Associated Press by telephone. "The whole town is in a frenzy and people are running in all directions."
The violence appeared to be in reprisal for anti-Christian violence Saturday in the mostly Muslim northern city of Maiduguri in which thousands of Muslims protesting caricatures of the Prophet Muhammad attacked Christians and burned churches, killing at least 18 people.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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Starman
SFN Regular
Sweden
1613 Posts |
Posted - 02/22/2006 : 01:22:23 [Permalink]
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From here.
quote:
Tuesday, February 21, 2006
Non-Religious Turmoil Escalates
15,000 atheists in London rioted after a blank sheet of paper was found on a cartoonist's desk.
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"Any religion that makes a form of torture into an icon that they worship seems to me a pretty sick sort of religion quite honestly"
-- Terry Jones |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 02/22/2006 : 01:26:33 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Starman
From here.
quote:
Tuesday, February 21, 2006
Non-Religious Turmoil Escalates
15,000 atheists in London rioted after a blank sheet of paper was found on a cartoonist's desk.
The good father cribbed that line from one of the cartoons Halfmooner linked.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
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