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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
 Posted - 02/14/2006 : 16:01:56 [Permalink]
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More from The Smoking Gun, an article titled, "See Dick. Run!":
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0213061cheney1.html
Included is the Texas Parks and Wildlife Department's "Hunting Accident and Incident Report," with charts of wound patterns.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 02/14/2006 16:02:53 |
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2006 : 16:21:36 [Permalink]
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Thanks for the link, Ricky. Funny one!
I find that Brad at Brad Blog (http://www.bradblog.com/) thinks much as I do, though he is perhaps a bit more restrained:
quote:
I'm not a big "cover-up" guy, but I see no reason to dispute that what we are now witnessing is indeed a cover-up in action. What they are covering-up, however, is still largely speculation, but I'd suggest this is exactly what one looks like from all the shifty, inexplicable ducking, dodging and dancing that these guys are displaying.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2006 : 16:27:56 [Permalink]
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Half said:
quote:
So I ask: How would this additional information affect your "range" estimates, keeping in mind the 28 gauge of the shotgun and Whittington's "cheek, neck and chest" wound pattern? Also, what is the exact size of shot that would be likely used in 28 gauge quail hunting loads?
Average muzzle velocity of 28 gauge shells with a 3/4 ounce load is about 1200fps. At 20 yards, with a skeet choke, 75% of the pellets will be within a 30inch circle. Cheek-to-chest, on myself, is about 12-15 inches, going from nose to the bottom of my sternum. To achieve a pattern where most of the shot was inside a 15inch circle would mean a super-full choke at 15 yards, or a typical IC choke at about 10 yards.
Even with the fairly high muzzle velocity, the size of the shot is what will determine it's penetration characteristics (lighter shot having less momentum at the same velocity will penetrate less).
Quail load, in 28g, should be somehwere between 3/4 and 1 ounce of shot. The shot size would be from #6 to #9. (6 being bigger, 9 the smaller).
But here is a quandry... the article says the piece of shot near his heart was 5mm... BBs are 4.5mm, 00Buck shot is 8mm. #6 shot is 2.5mm... Allowing for flattening and deforming on impact and penetration a #6 shot might deform into something 5mm, maybe.
So granting #6 shot, from a 28g gun, with a standard upland game load (1200fps or so), with a Improved Choke, you'd have to be 10 yards or closer to achieve a 15inch pattern with penetration through winter hunting clothes to land a piece of shot near the heart.
The guy had to be freeakin close to Cheney, IMO.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2006 : 16:44:34 [Permalink]
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Thank you, Dude! That was a great analysis, given the tiny amount of detail being given out. So, "freeakin close to Cheney" will work as our starting estimate for range.
BTW, Cheney's 28 gauge shotgun was a Italian "Brescia" model, made by Perazzi, serial number 15288, and used factory loads, according to the Texas game department report. No mention there as to the type of shot used. (Probably just the standard factory lawyer load.)
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 02/14/2006 16:45:12 |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2006 : 16:49:17 [Permalink]
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Stop the presses! My bad: The second page of the official report shown at Smoking Gun says #7-1/2 shot was used.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 02/14/2006 16:49:47 |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2006 : 17:19:27 [Permalink]
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This...
... Perazzi 28 gauge shotgun may the kind Cheney used when shooting Whittington. Looks like an "over-and-under" configuration. Did Cheney got off both shots? These fancy Italian shotguns cost many thousands each. I wonder who gave it to Cheney?
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 02/15/2006 : 00:33:52 [Permalink]
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Simply appalling.
quote:
not Bush, is in charge of the White House
by John in DC - 2/14/2006 12:58:00 PM
If ever there were an incident that showed who's really in charge of the White House it's this.
Bush is told an hour after the shooting, and isn't even informed that Cheney was the shooter.
White House spokesman Scott McClellan isn't even told until the next day that Cheney was the shooter.
How do you not tell your boss that his VP is involved? How does Cheney's staff, who are supposedly lower down on the totem pole than Scott McClellan, not inform the White House spokesman of the fact that the VP just nearly killed someone?
Bush and McClellan weren't told because they're not in charge, they're not in the loop, and no one apparently even thinks of including them in the loop when the going gets tough.
In some ways, this exonerates Bush for so many of the administration's scandals - how can he be guilty when he probably wasn't even at the switch? But at the same time, it's obviously distressing to know that we elected one man president and the other has assumed the job.
None of this comes as a suprise; the only ones that don't know or at least suspect that Cheney's in charge are the ones who pay so little attention that it's a wonder that they can feed themselves.
If Wellington dies, will Cheney be indicted? It is a sad commentary on today's political reality that the question can even be considered.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 02/15/2006 : 05:56:09 [Permalink]
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An update and a timeline, of sorts: quote:
The lawyer, Harry M. Whittington, was moved back into the intensive care unit at Christus Spohn Hospital in Corpus Christi, Tex., to be monitored for up to a week in case the birdshot shifted or additional pellets in his body moved into other organs, the officials said at a televised news conference. Dr. David Blanchard, the emergency room chief, estimated that Mr. Whittington had more than 5 but "probably less than 150 to 200" pellets lodged in his body.
Dr. Blanchard said that the hospital's cardiologists were optimistic that the metallic pellet in Mr. Whittington's heart would not travel farther and that he would be able to function normally. They said they did not consider the other pellets in his body problematic, and they currently have no plans to remove them.
Mr. Cheney's office, in its first official announcement about the incident, released a statement shortly after 2:30 p.m. Eastern time saying that the vice president's "thoughts and prayers are with Mr. Whittington and his family" and that Mr. Cheney had spoken by telephone to Mr. Whittington an hour earlier.
"The vice president wished Mr. Whittington well and asked if there was anything he needed," the statement said. "The vice president said that he stood ready to assist."
The statement added that Mr. Whittington's spirits were "good," but "obviously his situation deserves the careful monitoring that his doctors are providing."
The downturn in Mr. Whittington's health significantly changed the tone of the White House reaction to the hunting accident. In Texas, Carlos Valdez, the district attorney in Kleberg County, said a fatality would immediately spur a new report from the local sheriff and, most likely, a grand jury investigation.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 02/15/2006 : 11:43:20 [Permalink]
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And the Rude Pundit has a thought or two on the matter: quote:
Dick Cheney's Blue Dress:
So, like, apparently the country pays attention whenever someone in the White House blows a load all over another person. For what is the birdshot in Harry Whittington but so much spooge on a blue dress? When Monica Lewinsky handed her semen-stained frumpy frock over to Kenneth Starr, who then gave it to the FBI for DNA analysis, which then, of course, proved that President Bill Clinton likes 'em dumb and chubby, it caused orgasmic paroxysms all over DC since it gave the vast right wing conspiracy the perfect cudgel with which to beat us all and say, "See? See? Clinton bad. Clinton a liar. We no like Clinton." And it gave Orrin Hatch a purpose for existence for a year or so.
For those on the right, the blue dress, the Lewinsky affair, spoke to something deeply, perversely wrong with the man in the White House, despite, you know, keeping the nation relatively safe, wealthy, and sane for over five years. At it's most basic, the blue dress let 'em get 'im. But this isn't about what was right or wrong about the nation's reaction to the blue dress.
The handling of Dick Cheney shooting his own wad all over the face and chest of Whittington is almost bewildering to watch. Last night, in the post-blizzard Northeast, the Rude Pundit stood behind a hunched-over old woman on a street corner who used her cane to beat at the gathered slush, as if she could somehow will the properties of icy water to not make it simply puddle back. But she kept slashin' away. The Rude Pundit wanted to scream, "Fuck, if you can't walk through it, go around it, or just don't come out all," but out of respect for the muttering woman, he stood there until the light changed and he could cross the other way. In other words, you can beat that shit for as long as you like, but it ain't goin' away.
If the Democrats had even the balls of a blowfly maggot, they'd be sharpening their breaking and boning knives even as we speak.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 02/15/2006 : 11:48:18 [Permalink]
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And now, there's a evidence to suggest that some beer may have been involved:quote:
When first posted, NBC news quoted Katharine Armstrong as saying:
"There may be a beer or two in there," she said, "but remember not everyone in the party was shooting.".
About an hour later, the quote was deleted from the story.
Indeed! |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 02/15/2006 : 12:01:03 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by sts60
quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal
And today he's back in ICU. That doesn't sound like he's as peachy keen as the admin implies now does it?
Maybe not, but he's 78 years old. For all we know so far, he could have been injured worse when he fell down.....
Even if the fall caused an intracranial bleed and that's the problem, the injuries are being downplayed by the admin.
They wouldn't readmit him to ICU because the view was better. |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 02/15/2006 : 12:37:40 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by HalfMooner
Beskeptigal, do you have any medical comments based upon the paucity of information coming out about Whittington's condition? For instance, was he likely shot directly in the heart, or have pellets migrated via his vascular system to block arteries feeding his heart muscles? What are the implications?
First, afib is not a mild heart attack. Probably a doctor was trying to describe it to a dumb reporter. Or he had an MI in addition to the afib, also equally likely but to involve the pellet the sequence would have been pellet, afib, decreased blood flow to the coronary arteries, coronary artery clots off, MI. They did a cardiac cath. That implies they were either looking to see if there was any blood leaking out of the heart or, if he had had a real MI, looking to see what shape the coronary blood supply was in. I'm betting on a pellet near enough to the heart that they needed an angiocath to make sure it hadn't actually punctured the heart. Second choice would be an occluded artery they opened with the cath and what's called a stint.
The pellet is not likely in the blood stream. Were it to have entered a large enough vein to actually be migrating toward the heart, there would be some pretty considerable blood loss (which there may have been) AND while I'm not sure if surgical removal would have been possible, he would have at least stayed in the ICU until the pellet could no longer move because next stop for an emboli (something not supposed to be loose in the blood stream) would be the lungs and pulmonary emboli kill a lot of people.
In addition to all the other stuff going on, there is also the possibility this guy drinks daily in large amounts. I've taken care of more than one middle age to elderly gentleman who came in with something then after the second or third day without a drink, went into DTs.
As for Cheney, there is a liver enzyme that can tell if you drink daily and in excess. It's an ALT. It takes months to return to normal if you drink excessively. I've never seen a court or police agency take advantage of that marker in a criminal investigation.
I used it long ago when my ex, who was not my ex at the time was accused of being unfit to care for his son by his ex. She said he was always drinking, which he had been in the past. Right after we met, he quit, and he indeed had withdrawals so he had been pretty bad. But the test confirmed he was now sober and joint custody was awarded.
There are a number of alcoholics in our government in top offices. I've seen many a clear sign and Ted Kennedy isn't the only one. It wouldn't surprise me if Cheney is an alcoholic. Many people function at their jobs despite being addicted to alcohol. A couple of DUIs in anyone over age 25, (before that binge drinking accounts for some), is almost certainly a person addicted to alcohol. The courts never address alcohol addiction with drunk driving offenses and that's a shame because it would prevent a lot of second or more offenses if they did. |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 02/15/2006 : 12:40:35 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by HalfMooner
From The Smoking Gun:quote:
Cheney was convicted of drunk driving twice during an eight-month period in the early 1960s in his home state of Wyoming.
"Youthful indiscretion" seems a fair phrase to describe those incidents. Does anyone know if Cheney still drinks? I've been unable as yet to find any information on that.
If he still drinks, he's probably an alcoholic. Those could have been the binge drinking episodes I mentioned if he was truly young then. Or it could just be his connections got him out of more recent situations or he's learned to let the chauffeur drive.
Edited to add the blogs note Cheney left Yale for too much drinking and not enough studying. |
| Edited by - beskeptigal on 02/15/2006 12:58:08 |
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