|
|
|
THoR
Skeptic Friend
USA
151 Posts |
 Posted - 03/05/2006 : 17:41:31
|
Can anyone find the differences in the two pictures below?
(Me neither...)
Deleted photo and text because it's messing up the homepage. See snakes post below for a copy of the original picture…
Kil
|
I would procrastinate but I never seem to get around to it. |
|
|
marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2006 : 17:56:48 [Permalink]
|
| Well now yer just being silly. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
|
 |
|
|
beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2006 : 18:16:31 [Permalink]
|
Hi new member.
Is it a joke or a statement?
Are you one of those guys who think any woman who dares to be forceful is "masculine"?
If you think Hilary is a danger, what the hell do you think Bush is? Evil incarnate? |
|
|
|
marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2006 : 19:00:15 [Permalink]
|
The more I read about Hillary running for president, the more it makes sense to me. As much as Republicans have demonized her, elections are not won by hatred for the opposing candidate. Millions of liberal Americans mobilized to defeat Bush in 2004, and failed. So the question is, will enough voters love Hillary?
I sure as hell don't. But I don't think I count anymore because as a real liberal, I've been alienated by the mainstream Democratic party. Like Bill Clinton, Hillary is one of the moderate Dems (associated with the Democratic Leadership Council) that instead of seeking more persuasive ways to present liberal values to American voters, has moved the party away from liberal values. We're always hearing (or making) smarmy comments about how the Democratic party doesn't stand for anything anymore, that it is disorganized, that it is weak, or that its rhetoric is too intellectual and doesn't resonate for average American. Well these are the assholes that in my humble opinion have fucked it all up. Don't they get it? If one of the two major parties moves to the center, the center stops being the center! People like Dennis Kucinich, who haven't changed their values in over 20 years, have gone from being typical Democrats to being radical liberals. This line from wikipedia's section on “Criticism” of the DLC is a nice, concise statement on how I feel about politicians like the Clintons: “In the long run, so opponents say, a strategy of triangulation results in concession after concession to the opposition, while alienating traditional voters.”
Let's just look at just some of the concessions Bill Clinton allowed while he was president:
The Anti-Terrorism and Effective Death Penalty Act: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Terrorism_and_Effective_Death_Penalty_Act “This provision, and its subsequent interpretation by the federal courts, essentially allow convictions and sentences -- even death sentences -- to be upheld by federal courts even if they were concededly obtained in violation of the United States Constitution.”
Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violent_Crime_Control_and_Law_Enforcement_Act Which greatly expanded the federal death penalty and attempted to outlaw gang membership – which violates the Bill of Rights.
The Defense of Marriage Act: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defense_of_Marriage_Act Which allows states to not recognize marriage contracts from other states if they are gay marriages.
I can't find online what the name of the Act was that did this, but Clinton also allowed harsh laws against immigrates to pass through, including a law that allowed immigrants to be deported without seeing a judge first if they broke minor laws. Two examples I read about at the time were one of a boy who was adopted from Brazil when he was 2 years old. When he had just turned 18 he was busted on a marijuana charge. Because he was not a US citizen yet, he was deported without a trial even though he only spoke English and his legal parents were Americans. He died at the hands of Brazilian gang violence within a year after being deported. Second example: a Canadian professor working at an American university got engaged to an American woman. There was a new anti-immigration law that said that if he left the US in between applying for the marriage license and getting hitched, he would be automatically deported without a trial. Poor guy didn't read the fine print and thus got permanently deported because he visited his mom in Canada a week after applying for the marriage license.
Speaking of immigration: Hillary goes conservative on immigration: http://washingtontimes.com/national/20041213-124920-6151r.htm
My favorite quote from this article: “And ... perhaps, although I'm not a big fan of it, we might have to move towards an ID system even for citizens."
Anything to win elections, right?
|
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
|
| Edited by - marfknox on 03/05/2006 19:02:08 |
|
|
|
beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2006 : 01:49:26 [Permalink]
|
| I don't know how one tells if a person is only doing/saying something to gain votes or whether they believe what they stand for unless there is evidence they give a different message to different groups. How do you know Hilary's position on immigration is only to win elections and not genuline? |
|
|
|
Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2006 : 02:15:32 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by THoR
Can anyone find the differences in the two pictures below?
(Me neither...)
I couldn't see the pictures, they were blurry. But from what others have said, it's something about women and Hillary. Right?
My comment is, I think she's a communist. I would never vote for a woman anyway. And, she and the mayor of Los Angeles, should go start their own communist country.... better yet, move to Cuba. I'm sure they'd love it there. |
|
|
|
Starman
SFN Regular
Sweden
1613 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2006 : 03:06:12 [Permalink]
|
I agree with Tim Robins on HRC but, calling her communist or comparing her to Hitler is just silly.
|
|
|
|
filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2006 : 04:05:50 [Permalink]
|
Hilary would certainly be a vast improvement over the foul piece(s) of corporate suck-up offal we're stuck with currently, thank you so very much stay-at-home voters, you lazy, ignorant bastards.
I don't know if she can win it or not, but I'd choose her over any Republican, even if the son-of-a-bitch could walk on water. Her & Bill's track record might not be the greatest, but it's one hell of a lot better than her opposition's.
Has there been a decent and honorable, Republican president since Eisenhower? Or has that become a contradiction in terms?
|
"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
|
| Edited by - filthy on 03/06/2006 06:56:31 |
|
|
|
filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2006 : 04:51:14 [Permalink]
|
Stumbled across this & could'nt resist it -- the dunce and his cap:
Pretty symbolic of the current Mid-Eastern situation, isn't it?
|
"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
|
|
|
|
THoR
Skeptic Friend
USA
151 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2006 : 06:06:13 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal
Hi new member.
Is it a joke or a statement?
Yes
quote:
Are you one of those guys who think any woman who dares to be forceful is "masculine"?
Women should be obscene and not heard (but DON'T TELL MY WIFE-she'll kill me)
quote:
If you think Hilary is a danger, what the hell do you think Bush is? Evil incarnate?
No, he's Ali Bubba - and his 535 thieves.
Vote LIBERTARIAN and WIN a FREE Country!!
(contest not available in NY, NJ and CA) |
I would procrastinate but I never seem to get around to it. |
| Edited by - THoR on 03/06/2006 06:06:37 |
|
|
|
Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2006 : 06:44:54 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by marfknox
The more I read about Hillary running for president, the more it makes sense to me. As much as Republicans have demonized her, elections are not won by hatred for the opposing candidate. Millions of liberal Americans mobilized to defeat Bush in 2004, and failed. So the question is, will enough voters love Hillary?
Answer: No.
Hillary isn't electable due to a myriad of reasons stemming from her own statements (some self-contradictory) and the fact that she didn't leave the cheating bastard.
Gov. Tom Kaine (D-VA) is a lot more electable and has a track record of working with the opposite party to get things done. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
|
|
|
marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2006 : 08:00:41 [Permalink]
|
beskeptical wrote: quote:
How do you know Hilary's position on immigration is only to win elections and not genuline?
I don't give a crap if her position is genuine or not (although that particular position is rather convenient.) I was making a statement about the general tactics of the whole moderate movement in the Democratic party.
snake My comment is, I think she's a communist. And you back that claim up with what evidence? In the Senate she's voted “yes” to more free trade agreement than she's voted “no”. She was rated 35% by the US Chamber of Commerce, indicating a mixed business voting record, and rated 21% by National Taxpayers Union, indicating a "Big Spender" on tax votes. Hardly a “communist”.
filthy wrote:quote:
Hilary would certainly be a vast improvement over the foul piece(s) of corporate suck-up offal we're stuck with currently, thank you so very much stay-at-home voters, you lazy, ignorant bastards.
Absolutely true, but given how truly horrific the current administration is, that isn't saying much.
ThORquote:
Vote LIBERTARIAN and WIN a FREE Country!!
Ah, you're one of those. Isn't that cute. How do you like being part of an overly-idealistic-to-the-point-of-insanity party that it completely impotent when it comes to every kind of meaningful election?
Val [/b]wrote:
quote:
Hillary isn't electable due to a myriad of reasons stemming from her own statements (some self-contradictory) and the fact that she didn't leave the cheating bastard.
I agree with the first, but not with the second. I read that sticking with Bill overall brought her favor in the eyes of Americans. Conservatives and many moderates viewed that as loyalty. And even many liberals didn't fault her for it since there is no hard and fast rule in liberal values that says what one should do in such a situation. Given the sheer number of Americans who have cheated on their spouses or serious significant other (far more than half), many could see Hillary's choice to stick with Bill as one of compassion, hope and strength.
And then maybe she did it for political reasons.
I for one am not swayed one way or another because of her personal choice to stay married to Bill.
Here's a good article about Hillary's political chances called “The Once and Future President: It's not as crazy as it seems” http://www.nymag.com/nymetro/news/politics/national/features/11082/index.html Here's a teaser:
quote:
“Yeah, but I don't know how you beat her for the Democratic nomination,” says Bob Kerrey, the former Democratic senator from Nebraska, now the head of the New School. “She's a rock star.” She's also way ahead in the most recent nationwide poll of Democrats, conducted by CNN, Gallup, and USA Today: 40 percent cite her as their first choice in 2008.
The whole subject makes Democratic Washington a bit jumpy. How can the party gamble on yet another liberal brainiac who lacks a tactile sense of politics and flair for speaking in the public square? Especially someone as polarizing as she is? Then again, she is Hillary. Think about how mu |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
|
| Edited by - marfknox on 03/08/2006 06:26:57 |
|
|
|
THoR
Skeptic Friend
USA
151 Posts |
Posted - 03/08/2006 : 06:06:07 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by marfknox
ThORquote:
Vote LIBERTARIAN and WIN a FREE Country!!
Ah, you're one of those. Isn't that cute. How do you like being part of an overly-idealistic-to-the-point-of-insanity party that it completely impotent when it comes to every kind of meaningful election?
Yes, it takes an ENORMOUS capacity for frustration to be a Libertarian. The REST of the population has the government it DESERVES. Fortunately many of us aren't really overly-idealistic. I personally believe in a strong military and fighting tyranny WHEREVER it may be, not just here.But I have also witnessed the erosion of so much personal autonomy over the last 50 years that we can no longer consider ourselves 'free'. Some may call themselves "comfortably subjugated". I; however, prefer the animating contest of freedom better than the tranquility of servitude |
I would procrastinate but I never seem to get around to it. |
|
|
|
marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 03/08/2006 : 06:24:56 [Permalink]
|
THoR wrote: quote:
But I have also witnessed the erosion of so much personal autonomy over the last 50 years that we can no longer consider ourselves 'free'. Some may call themselves "comfortably subjugated". I; however, prefer the animating contest of freedom better than the tranquility of servitude
How vague. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
|
|
|
|
THoR
Skeptic Friend
USA
151 Posts |
Posted - 03/08/2006 : 08:24:55 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by marfknox
THoR wrote: quote:
But I have also witnessed the erosion of so much personal autonomy over the last 50 years that we can no longer consider ourselves 'free'. Some may call themselves "comfortably subjugated". I; however, prefer the animating contest of freedom better than the tranquility of servitude
How vague.
Are you enjoying your 'AlGore Tiny Toilet?'. Uncle Sam saw fit to dictate the size toilet you may have in your bathroom. And if the Libs had their way, only five of a kind would make a flush |
I would procrastinate but I never seem to get around to it. |
|
|
|
marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 03/08/2006 : 11:03:11 [Permalink]
|
THoR wrote: quote:
Are you enjoying your 'AlGore Tiny Toilet?'. Uncle Sam saw fit to dictate the size toilet you may have in your bathroom. And if the Libs had their way, only five of a kind would make a flush
I don't even know what this means. Look, if you want to debate over something, then take a stance and put up your argument. But if you're just going to toss in little one-liners that overgeneralize both the liberal and libertarian concepts of freedom, well that's just lame. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
|
| Edited by - marfknox on 03/08/2006 11:05:00 |
|
|
 |
|
Topic Locked
