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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
 Posted - 03/21/2006 : 12:28:30
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I'm sharing this e-mail with at least 10 people.
What You Need To Believe To Be A Republican
1. Jesus loves you, and shares your hatred of homosexuals and Hillary Clinton.
2. Saddam was a good guy when Reagan armed him, a bad guy when
Bush's daddy made war on him, a good guy when Cheney did business with
him, and a bad guy when Bush needed a "we can't find Bin Laden" diversion.
3. Trade with Cuba is wrong because the country is Communist, but trade with China and Vietnam is vital to a spirit of international harmony and business.
4. The United States should get out of the United Nations, and our highest national priority is enforcing U.N. resolutions against Iraq.
5. A woman can't be trusted with decisions about her own body, but multi-national corporations can make decisions affecting all mankind without regulation.
6. The best way to improve military morale is to praise the troops in speeches, while slashing veterans' benefits and combat pay.
7. If condoms are kept out of schools, adolescents won't have sex.
8. A good way to fight terrorism is to belittle our long-time allies, then demand their cooperation and money.
9. Providing health care to all Iraqis is sound policy, but providing health care to all Americans is socialism. HMOs and insurance companies have the best interests of the public at heart.
10. Global warming and tobacco's link to cancer are junk science, but creationism should be taught in schools.
11. A president lying about an extramarital affair is a impeachable offense, but a president lying to enlist support for a war in which thousands die is solid defense policy.
12. Government should limit itself to the powers named in the Constitution, which include banning gay marriages and censoring the Internet.
13. The public has a right to know about Hillary's cattle trades, but George Bush's driving record is none of our business.
14. Being a drug addict is a moral failing and a crime, unless you're a conservative radio host. Then it's an illness and you need our prayers for your recovery.
15. Supporting "Executive Privilege" for every Republican ever born, who will be born or who might be born (in perpetuity.)
16. What Bill Clinton did in the 1960s is of vital national interest, but what Bush did in the 1980s is irrelevant.
17. Support hunters who shoot their friends and blame them for wearing orange vests similar to those worn by the quail.
If you don't send this to at least 10 other people, we're likely to be stuck with more Republicans in '06 and '08.
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Chippewa
SFN Regular
USA
1496 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2006 : 12:40:21 [Permalink]
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| Great fun. And ...all true! |
Diversity, independence, innovation and imagination are progressive concepts ultimately alien to the conservative mind.
"TAX AND SPEND" IS GOOD! (TAX: Wealthy corporations who won't go poor even after taxes. SPEND: On public works programs, education, the environment, improvements.) |
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2006 : 13:09:04 [Permalink]
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I don't think this sort of list convinces anyone who is on the fence or who is conservative. Just Democratic rhetoric-the equivalent of bumper sticker speech. I have no problem with bumper stickers (I have about 6 on my car), but it is not a replacement for intelligent discussion and adaquate research of issues.
For one, most things on this list distort issues by oversimplifying them. For another, the Republican party is a "big tent", so it is unfair to accuse them of hypocrasy because one person or group says one thing, and another say something contradictory. There is a good deal of mainstream division among Republicans on several issues named in this list. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2006 : 13:47:03 [Permalink]
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| Martha are you a Republican? And if so are you denying the hypocrisy here? These statements, with the exception of 17, come from public statements and /or actions made by not only Party leaders, but also some have been put out as 'talking points' memos. |
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verso
Skeptic Friend
USA
76 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2006 : 14:51:04 [Permalink]
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I love how anytime anyone disagrees ever so slightly, or even cautions against shaky reasoning, the "accusations" start flying.
"Martha are you a Republican?...."
The kind of crap in that list belongs in the cess-pool debate boards of yahoo or other huge, easily-accesable discussion areas. All of it is so hyperbolic, mis-representational and simply false that really - it only hurts your own position.
Don't stoop to that level.
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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Chippewa
SFN Regular
USA
1496 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2006 : 18:21:51 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Ricky
...How many republicans think global warming and tabacco's link to cancer are junk science, and that creationism should be taught in schools?...
Don't know the exact number but the White House has been actively pursuing a policy of discrediting or burying science that they see as conflicting with their agenda. Here's an astronomer's take on it:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/phil-plait/white-house-science-suppr_b_17599.html |
Diversity, independence, innovation and imagination are progressive concepts ultimately alien to the conservative mind.
"TAX AND SPEND" IS GOOD! (TAX: Wealthy corporations who won't go poor even after taxes. SPEND: On public works programs, education, the environment, improvements.) |
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2006 : 18:33:19 [Permalink]
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beskeptical wrote: quote:
Martha are you a Republican?
Why are you asking me that. I've made it clear on this forum numerous times (in discussions you were part of) that I'm a die-hard atheist, feminist, liberal and proud of it. I'm also proud of being a skeptic, and my skepticism extends beyond religion.
quote:
And if so are you denying the hypocrisy here?
“And if so”? So you only want further explanation of my response if I'm a Republican? quote:
These statements, with the exception of 17, come from public statements and /or actions made by not only Party leaders, but also some have been put out as 'talking points' memos.
1. Jesus loves you, and shares your hatred of homosexuals and Hillary Clinton. -Can you please quote the Party leaders who have said, in official Repupublican capacity, that “Jesus loves you” and you should hate homosexuals and Hillary Clinton?
2. Saddam was a good guy when Reagan armed him, a bad guy when
Bush's daddy made war on him, a good guy when Cheney did business with
him, and a bad guy when Bush needed a "we can't find Bin Laden" diversion. –Qualify “good” and “bad”. They don't have to refer to ethics or morality, and in fact ethics and morality have little to do regarding politics. In politics things are good or bad so long as they further political aims at that time. You can argue that the support of Saddam in the past was a mistake (mistake meaning that it didn't achieve the intended aims and caused other political problems in the long run), but it was a calculated political stance that had reasons behind it. I would agree with you that it was a mistake, but to argue that it is hypocrisy is to painfully simplify the issues.
3. Trade with Cuba is wrong because the country is Communist, but trade with China and Vietnam is vital to a spirit of international harmony and business. –I agree with you that that is hypocrisy. There are historical explanations, but that doesn't justify it. The reasons we don't trade with Cuba today are political and have pretty much nothing to do with them being Communist.
4. The United States should get out of the United Nations, and our highest national priority is enforcing U.N. resolutions against Iraq. The fact that you don't understand how you can hold these beliefs both simultaneously demonstrates a naïve lack of understanding of international relations. Conservatives believe we should get out of the UN because they feel it restricts our sovereignty as a nation state. But, the UN has credibility in the world community, therefore if the US has a problem in the international community and the UN does something US conservatives find favorable, of course they'll support it. It is realism, not hypocrisy at work here.
5. A woman can't be trusted with decisions about her own body, but multi-national corporations can make decisions affecting all mankind without regulation. –False analogy.
6. The best way to improve military morale is to praise the troops in speeches, while slashing veterans' benefits and combat pay. –I am in total agreement with this one. That is blatant hypocrisy on the part of the current administration.
7. If condoms are kept out of schools, adolescents won't have sex. This is an overly simplistic way to bring up abstinence-only sex ed that is endorsed by the Religious Right side of the Republican |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2006 : 19:19:06 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by marfknox
I don't think this sort of list convinces anyone who is on the fence or who is conservative.
It isn't supposed to. It's supposed to mock Republicans using gross oversimplifications. That is its sole purpose. You may enjoy it, you may be offended by it, you may be unmoved by it. But to analyse it line by line proves that you have certainly missed the point of it. Of course it doesn't stand up to rigorous analysis. It's a freaking joke. It drives at that "kernel of truth" we all recognize. But hey! You found that it doesn't exactly apply to every Republican? Wow, hellova revelation there. 
Jesus, marf, you must be a real blast at parties.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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johnnydajogger
New Member
USA
3 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2006 : 19:46:55 [Permalink]
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Ahhh comeon, its just a little fun.  |
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2006 : 20:07:07 [Permalink]
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Humbert wrote: quote:
It isn't supposed to.
Actually, it states at the end that it does: "If you don't send this to at least 10 other people, we're likely to be stuck with more Republicans in '06 and '08." quote:
It's supposed to mock Republicans using gross oversimplifications...But to analyse it line by line proves that you have certainly missed the point of it. Of course it doesn't stand up to rigorous analysis. It's a freaking joke.
Then why is it posted in "politics" and not "humor"? I wasn't going to post a point by point criticism of it. If you'll notice, I wrote a short response basically saying that it was little more than empty rhetoric, and then beskeptical challenged me on that criticism. Then I wrote a more thourough response. Also, you'll notice that Chippewa's response included "And...all true." We can sit and debate over what "true" means in that context, but are you going to deny that there are tons of simple-minded liberals for whom this type of lame rhetoric is the full extent of their political knowledge and opinions? (BTW - please no one interpret this as me saying that beskeptical or Chippewa are simple-minded. I am not saying that as I do not know how to properly interpret what they've posted in this discussion thus far.)
quote:
It drives at that "kernel of truth" we all recognize.
It only does that for people who are educated about the issues. For those who aren't, it provides lame rhetoric rather than sparking discussion or actually educating.quote:
But hey! You found that it doesn't exactly apply to every Republican? Wow, hellova revelation there.
My criticism hardly ended there.quote:
Jesus, marf, you must be a real blast at parties.
Thanks for that little knock on my character. Last I checked, this was a discussion forum for critical thinkers, not a party. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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| Edited by - marfknox on 03/21/2006 20:08:54 |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2006 : 20:32:09 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by marfknox
I checked, this was a discussion forum for critical thinkers, not a party.
And by failing to treat this list as what it is--humor--you've failed to exercise any critical thinking skills. It would have been equally productive to analyse a Tonight Show script for "false generalizations" and other logical fallacies. Treating every written thing as if it should follow the rules of a structured debate is called a "category error." Perhaps you should add that to your list.
quote:
Then why is it posted in "politics" and not "humor"?
It's political humor. Sort of a toss up. Or are you saying you need things spelled out for you?
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
| Edited by - H. Humbert on 03/21/2006 20:35:08 |
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2006 : 21:52:43 [Permalink]
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People take jokes seriously while simutaneously recognizing the humor all the time. That's why sometimes when Jay Leno tells a joke about a particularly controversial issue, the audience both laughs and does a low-pitched "ooooooooo". People who study pop culture analyze things that were never meant to be analyzed all the time. If someone critically analyzed a joke from the Tonight Show as a way to understand something about mainstream public opinion, that could be totally valid.
Context is important here. This list, while including elements of humor, does not present itself as merely a joke. Beskeptical, was it only posted to be funny, or did you also mean it as a legit criticism of Republicans?
I don't think the author or most of the people who eagerly circulate this list "get" the irony of harping on Republican rhetoric with Democratic rhetoric that is just as lame, or about calling Republicans hypocrits for the same type of political action that all politicians must and do engage in. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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| Edited by - marfknox on 03/21/2006 21:54:07 |
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Chippewa
SFN Regular
USA
1496 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2006 : 23:09:23 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by marfknox
...but are you going to deny that there are tons of simple-minded liberals for whom this type of lame rhetoric is the full extent of their political knowledge and opinions? (BTW - please no one interpret this as me saying that beskeptical or Chippewa are simple-minded. I am not saying that as I do not know how to properly interpret what they've posted in this discussion thus far...
I deny it. Calling oneself liberal while falling right inline with a Fox News style Neocon frame: "tons of liberals" being "politically simple minded" no doubt would bring a smile to Carl Rove as he maps out the next set of so called fair and balanced beliefs for those who lack critical thinking.
It is more likely that there are tons of intelligent liberals to whom humor and rhetoric serves as a lighthearted introduction to serious issues. BTW, (Insert insult here). (Please, no one interpret what I've said as an insult as I don't understand how to interpret properly what they've posted. (Insult No. 2) Analysis: (Parody – a form of humor.)
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Diversity, independence, innovation and imagination are progressive concepts ultimately alien to the conservative mind.
"TAX AND SPEND" IS GOOD! (TAX: Wealthy corporations who won't go poor even after taxes. SPEND: On public works programs, education, the environment, improvements.) |
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Chippewa
SFN Regular
USA
1496 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2006 : 23:14:45 [Permalink]
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| And, as a follow-up, let's not forget how to laugh! |
Diversity, independence, innovation and imagination are progressive concepts ultimately alien to the conservative mind.
"TAX AND SPEND" IS GOOD! (TAX: Wealthy corporations who won't go poor even after taxes. SPEND: On public works programs, education, the environment, improvements.) |
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