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Robb
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
 Posted - 03/29/2006 : 09:39:24
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http://www.mexica-movement.org/granmarcha.htm
I think this does nothing to solve the immigration problem. If everybody went back to their orininal countries, we would all live in Africa. I guess besides a free education, free health care and paying less or no taxes they want our country as well. Without the U.S. they would not be able to make a good living.
The solution seems to me, is to have a guest worker program and accellerate the process for making people citizens of the U.S. Having millions of people here illegally and causing severe problems with our health system and schools is unacceptable. We need to encourage citizenship and not criminal activity.
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Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. - George Washington |
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 03/29/2006 : 11:19:53 [Permalink]
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Looking at all the photos, I assumed they were talking about when the US basically stole half of Mexico's territory in the Mexican-American war of the 1800's. But then I saw this sentence: quote:
Europeans have been here illegally since 1492
and I just went "Huh?" But Mexico is also a nation founded by Europeans. So I guess the Mexicans in this movement know their history about as well as the average American knows this country's history. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 03/29/2006 : 12:58:13 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by marfknox
Looking at all the photos, I assumed they were talking about when the US basically stole half of Mexico's territory in the Mexican-American war of the 1800's. But then I saw this sentence: quote:
Europeans have been here illegally since 1492
and I just went "Huh?" But Mexico is also a nation founded by Europeans. So I guess the Mexicans in this movement know their history about as well as the average American knows this country's history.
Marf,
You need to check history again.
The Spanards have been in Mexico since then. Mexico is made up of Spanards and indigenous peoples. They are pushing for the expulsion of all non-indegenous peoples. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 03/29/2006 : 15:10:40 [Permalink]
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My only gripe about the mass of Mexican immigrants is the almost total lack of population growth control in Mexico since other countries started recognizing the overpopulation problems that were looming. Mexico has one of the highest population growth rates in the world or at least they did in an old Scientific American volume on population growth a decade or so ago. I haven't looked for recent figures but I'd be surprised if they differed by any great amount.
But as to the indigent people, very few of them are not of mixed heritage. It is an interesting statement they are making. |
| Edited by - beskeptigal on 03/29/2006 15:13:51 |
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
Posted - 03/29/2006 : 16:35:37 [Permalink]
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| I just hope I have some Hawaian in me, Id hate to live in the UK. |
"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History
"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini |
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Ghost_Skeptic
SFN Regular
Canada
510 Posts |
Posted - 03/29/2006 : 21:44:03 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by RobbIf everybody went back to their orininal countries, we would all live in Africa.
I agree! Send the scatterlings of Africa back home and give Europe back to the Neanderthals.
I wonder how much native one has to have in them to remain in North America - I hope I qualify. I suspect that by the time Columbus blundered into North America, just about every Native tribe had usurped the original inhabitants of wherever they were living. The Inuit displaced the Thule etc. The Kootenai were not pushed out of the Eastern slopes of the Canadian Rockies by various plains Indians until after the arrival of Europeans.
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"You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. / You can send a kid to college but you can't make him think." - B.B. King
History is made by stupid people - The Arrogant Worms
"The greater the ignorance the greater the dogmatism." - William Osler
"Religion is the natural home of the psychopath" - Pat Condell
"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter" - Thomas Jefferson |
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 03/29/2006 : 23:03:47 [Permalink]
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Val wrote: quote:
Marf,
You need to check history again.
The Spanards have been in Mexico since then. Mexico is made up of Spanards and indigenous peoples. They are pushing for the expulsion of all non-indegenous peoples.
What historical fact did I get wrong? I simply stated that the Mexico (the current nation) was founded by Europeans. That is true.
I read more on this website. These people are so insane. What the hell do they think they are going to accomplish? Where the hell do they think all the white (and mostly white? I mean, where do they draw the line with the majority of Central Americans who are mixed race?) are going to go? And if we're supposed to abide by supposed laws from 400 years ago, why not 800 years ago? What a bunch of arbitrary, racist crap. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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pleco
SFN Addict
USA
2998 Posts |
Posted - 03/30/2006 : 06:15:14 [Permalink]
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quote:
What a bunch of arbitrary, racist crap.
Bingo! |
by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart. |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 03/31/2006 : 06:22:03 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by marfknox
Val wrote: quote:
Marf,
You need to check history again.
The Spanards have been in Mexico since then. Mexico is made up of Spanards and indigenous peoples. They are pushing for the expulsion of all non-indegenous peoples.
What historical fact did I get wrong? I simply stated that the Mexico (the current nation) was founded by Europeans. That is true.
Because the context in which their call goes out is about the geographical area, not the nation itself. As one cannot logically deport a nation, their context is clearly the conglomeration of tribal holdings by indigenous peoples. And the current country was founded by people of mixed ancestry and people of strictly Spanish descent. By birth, many were born in the geographical area. (see Mexican revolution)
quote:
I read more on this website. These people are so insane. What the hell do they think they are going to accomplish? Where the hell do they think all the white (and mostly white? I mean, where do they draw the line with the majority of Central Americans who are mixed race?) are going to go? And if we're supposed to abide by supposed laws from 400 years ago, why not 800 years ago? What a bunch of arbitrary, racist crap.
No argument about the illogic of it all. Their push is to send them to Europe. I've seen the exact same rhetoric before out of the Klan concerning Blacks and Africa. The people pushing for the expulsion don't care where the people go, just as long as they get off their land. Leaky boat to wherever and let the local governments on that continet figure out who goes where or even if they become a portless ship slowly starving to death like some ships filled with Jewish refugees from Germany. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 04/07/2006 : 00:49:38 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Robb
I guess besides a free education, free health care and paying less or no taxes they want our country as well.
The solution seems to me, is to have a guest worker program and accellerate the process for making people citizens of the U.S.
Accelerate nothing. They can get the hell in line like everyone else who has come here before them, legally. Like my room mate, who BTW had to have a medical examination, speak English (which he learned BEFORE he came here) and had to learn about the US government, etc. Rewarding people for sneaking in is sending the wrong message. And a slap in the face to every other person who waited their turn.
Foreign students pay a hell of a lot of money to go to school here (at least in California), if they are honest in their application. They need a sponsor to live here and show they have the finances too. (I've been a sponser and I've known many foreign students.) It's just not right that others take advantage when honest people wait in line and pay so much more and don't get any favors for it. |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 04/07/2006 : 00:54:10 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by marfknox
the US basically stole half of Mexico's territory in the Mexican-American war of the 1800's.
Stole??? Oh Please! That's nonsense. |
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Robb
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 04/07/2006 : 07:33:36 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Snake
quote:
Originally posted by marfknox
the US basically stole half of Mexico's territory in the Mexican-American war of the 1800's.
Stole??? Oh Please! That's nonsense.
They gave most of the southwestern land to us in the treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo in 1848. We did not steal it. |
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. - George Washington |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 04/07/2006 : 12:19:24 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Robb
quote:
Originally posted by Snake
quote:
Originally posted by marfknox
the US basically stole half of Mexico's territory in the Mexican-American war of the 1800's.
Stole??? Oh Please! That's nonsense.
They gave most of the southwestern land to us in the treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo in 1848. We did not steal it.
Well, technically we obtained the land from other thieves. The whole freaking continent was stolen… |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 04/07/2006 : 23:43:44 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Robb
They gave most of the southwestern land to us in the treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo in 1848. We did not steal it.
Sold, for money. Not gave.
It's a long complicated series of events that lead up to the whole thing. One of which was....they (Mexico) started the war in the 1st place by firing 1st.
So, I don't think it's fair to accuse the US of stealing anything.
But IMO, Spain was the one who among other countries had claim to California, I don't think Mexico was even a country in the beginning.
That's beside the point anyway. The poor leadership of Mexico is the cause of their problems. Before anyone blames the US for being the 'bad guy', stealing land, take a look at how Mexico handled its problems.
Ps. I forgot to say why I posted in this folder in the 1st place. Wanted to say I'm white and I am a racist. I think Orientals are smarter than any other peoples and in particular the Chinese are the best of them. |
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