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verlch
SFN Regular
781 Posts |
 Posted - 06/01/2006 : 18:36:00 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
quote:
Originally posted by verlch
Who was the man on the other end recieving the call? Wasn't his name Thomas, or Scott?
What does Thomas Watson have to do with Thomas Edison? Anything besides a common first name?
Alexander Gram Bell is the one saying Thomas....How is this for creator bell, Bell created phone.
This is of course before man creates the airplane and automobile. Oh yeah, and before he creates a rocket to go into space!!!!
How do we know that man created all this? We see evidence of his creation, and know that it didn't create itself!!!! |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 06/01/2006 : 19:14:20 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by verlch
quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
quote:
Originally posted by verlch
Who was the man on the other end recieving the call? Wasn't his name Thomas, or Scott?
What does Thomas Watson have to do with Thomas Edison? Anything besides a common first name?
Alexander Gram Bell is the one saying Thomas....How is this for creator bell, Bell created phone.
This is of course before man creates the airplane and automobile. Oh yeah, and before he creates a rocket to go into space!!!!
How do we know that man created all this? We see evidence of his creation, and know that it didn't create itself!!!!
Christ, verlch, take your meds, man! These arguments are anything but! If you refuse to seriousy educate yourself in such matters, you wil always be ignorant and always be wrong. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 06/01/2006 : 19:51:12 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by verlch
How do we know that man created all this? We see evidence of his creation, and know that it didn't create itself!!!!
Indeed. Where is there evidence of God's creation? Where is our knowledge that the world did not "create itself?"
Unlike Cune, I see progress here, as it seems like you're working towards a positive hypothesis, namely that there is evidence for God's creation of everything. This is much more rational than spewing garbage along the lines of "polystrate fossils disprove evolution, therefore God exists."
So please, verlch, continue your argument by analogy between human inventions and an alleged divine creation. And then tell us why in the world your God is such a pathetically insecure bully that He demands worship from His own Creation. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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verlch
SFN Regular
781 Posts |
Posted - 06/01/2006 : 20:22:40 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
quote:
Originally posted by verlch
How do we know that man created all this? We see evidence of his creation, and know that it didn't create itself!!!!
Indeed. Where is there evidence of God's creation? Where is our knowledge that the world did not "create itself?"
Unlike Cune, I see progress here, as it seems like you're working towards a positive hypothesis, namely that there is evidence for God's creation of everything. This is much more rational than spewing garbage along the lines of "polystrate fossils disprove evolution, therefore God exists."
So please, verlch, continue your argument by analogy between human inventions and an alleged divine creation. And then tell us why in the world your God is such a pathetically insecure bully that He demands worship from His own Creation.
I wouldn't call it being an insecure bully, I think he wants his living creation to sweare allegence to Him. I believe he gave life to everything and demands his creaturew worship their maker, and do not do so, at your own pearl. Nobody is forcing us to worship Him. You do so on your own free will. In my opinion of course. |
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Hawks
SFN Regular
Canada
1383 Posts |
Posted - 06/01/2006 : 21:03:04 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by verlch
Where is this spirit world we are evolving too????
Come on, man didn't just evolve all these billions of years, out of nothing, to not become a god, did he?
Obviously, you all believe we are evolving, please tell the audience, where we are headed!!!
With no concrete evidence of macro evolution, only hypothesis, and dreams, you have stated, with facts, that evolution holds true. Ok, then where are we headed? Certainly you have all claimed to know that, this is a stop before humans go from apes to gods. Correct me if I missed something Meta physical.
You do realise that the creation/evolution "debate" is about biological evolution don't you? Why would you post a link full of new age flummery... unless... of course... you haven't got a fricking clue what you're talking about!!! Your persistence in totally failing to understand what evolution is, is nothing short of remarkable.
It's not that you have missed something metaphysical as much as that you've included some. |
METHINKS IT IS LIKE A WEASEL
It's a small, off-duty czechoslovakian traffic warden! |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 06/01/2006 : 21:18:22 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by verlch
I wouldn't call it being an insecure bully, I think he wants his living creation to sweare allegence to Him. I believe he gave life to everything and demands his creaturew worship their maker, and do not do so, at your own pearl. Nobody is forcing us to worship Him. You do so on your own free will. In my opinion of course.
Worship God of your own "free will" or be mercilessly tortured for eternity. How is that not the "free choice" offered by a schoolyard bully?
Beyond that, God never asked a single human being if he/she wanted to be created (not that I'm aware, at least). Doing something for/to someone for which they didn't ask and then demanding that they be grateful is not an act of love or compassion, it is nothing more than emotional blackmail.
And I notice you're just going to avoid the questions put to you about the evidence of God's creation. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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verlch
SFN Regular
781 Posts |
Posted - 06/01/2006 : 21:23:16 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Hawks
quote:
Originally posted by verlch
Where is this spirit world we are evolving too????
Come on, man didn't just evolve all these billions of years, out of nothing, to not become a god, did he?
Obviously, you all believe we are evolving, please tell the audience, where we are headed!!!
With no concrete evidence of macro evolution, only hypothesis, and dreams, you have stated, with facts, that evolution holds true. Ok, then where are we headed? Certainly you have all claimed to know that, this is a stop before humans go from apes to gods. Correct me if I missed something Meta physical.
You do realise that the creation/evolution "debate" is about biological evolution don't you? Why would you post a link full of new age flummery... unless... of course... you haven't got a fricking clue what you're talking about!!! Your persistence in totally failing to understand what evolution is, is nothing short of remarkable.
It's not that you have missed something metaphysical as much as that you've included some.
How on earth did we evolve to the present state? I think you are missing the point about becoming gods.
Have you not read the books?
Understanding evolution is one thing, understanding the whole picture is antother. There is nothing New Age about it. We cannot have evolved this current state, to go no further, and I think you missed the major connection that evolution was New Age all along!!!
http://www.christiananswers.net/q-eden/edn-r007.html |
What came first the chicken or the egg?
How do plants exist without bugs in the soil, and bugs in the soil without plants producing oxygen?
There are no atheists in foxholes
Underlying the evolutionary theory is not just the classic "stuff" of science — conclusions arrived at through prolonged observation and experimentation. Evolution is first an atheistic, materialistic world view. In other words, the primary reason for its acceptance has little to do with the evidence for or against it. Evolution is accepted because men are atheists by faith and thus interpret the evidence to cor-respond to their naturalistic philosophy.
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. II Timothy 4:3,4
II Thess. 2:11 And for this cause God shall
send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
You can not see the 'wind', but you can see its effect!!!!
Evolution was caused by genetic mistakes at each stage?
Radical Evolution has 500 million years to find fossils of fictional drawings of (hard core)missing links, yet they find none.
We have not seen such moral darkness since the dark ages, coencides with
teaching evolution in schools. (Moral darkness)
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places, EPH 6:12.
"Thus, many scientists embracing naturalism find themselves in the seeming dilemma recently articulated by biochemist Franklin Harold: "We should reject, as a matter of principle, the substitution of intelligent design for the dialogue of chance and necessity [i.e., Darwinian evolution]; but we must concede that there are presently no detailed Darwinian accounts of the evolution of any biochemical system, only a variety of wishful speculations."
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verlch
SFN Regular
781 Posts |
Posted - 06/01/2006 : 21:27:24 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
quote:
Originally posted by verlch
I wouldn't call it being an insecure bully, I think he wants his living creation to sweare allegence to Him. I believe he gave life to everything and demands his creaturew worship their maker, and do not do so, at your own pearl. Nobody is forcing us to worship Him. You do so on your own free will. In my opinion of course.
Worship God of your own "free will" or be mercilessly tortured for eternity. How is that not the "free choice" offered by a schoolyard bully?
Beyond that, God never asked a single human being if he/she wanted to be created (not that I'm aware, at least). Doing something for/to someone for which they didn't ask and then demanding that they be grateful is not an act of love or compassion, it is nothing more than emotional blackmail.
And I notice you're just going to avoid the questions put to you about the evidence of God's creation.
Why would one not want to exist? The bible says there will be a time that people will simply not exist, like they were never born.
Evidence, I see life all around me, handywork.
Personally I would rather exist, albeit for good moreso than evil. |
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pleco
SFN Addict
USA
2998 Posts |
Posted - 06/01/2006 : 21:32:03 [Permalink]
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quote:
We cannot have evolved this current state, to go no further
Lie. Just like the link you posted. Lies written by liars for other liars to spread. You break your own god's commandments so often that no one listens to you. Think about that. |
by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2006 : 02:11:18 [Permalink]
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You haven't been paying attention at all, have you verlch? After all of this time; all of these posts in a myriad of threads, you still come up with tripe such as this:
quote:
Where is this spirit world we are evolving too????
Come on, man didn't just evolve all these billions of years, out of nothing, to not become a god, did he?
Obviously, you all believe we are evolving, please tell the audience, where we are headed!!!
With no concrete evidence of macro evolution, only hypothesis, and dreams, you have stated, with facts, that evolution holds true. Ok, then where are we headed? Certainly you have all claimed to know that, this is a stop before humans go from apes to gods. Correct me if I missed something Meta physical.
Very well then, here it is again:
Evolution has no goal. Evolution has no ambition. Evolution is not trying to hit some spiritual lotto. Evolution is headed no-fucking-where!
How and why is that so difficult to comprehend? Too subtle, mayhap?
At this point, if it was anyone but you, I'd put up a few heavily referenced links and quotes demonstrating so-called 'macro' evolution, but I and others did that long ago. Sorta turned out to be a waste of time, didn't it? You got nothing from them; saw nothing to cause you to think -- assuming that you actually opened the links in the first place. If you had, you wouldn't have made the above statements and given me yet another chuckle.
So instead of posting anything of worth beyond the the emphasized statement, I'll content myself with asking a question:
As you agree that 'micro' evolution happens, then how many 'micros' might it take before it all becomes a 'macro?'
Oh, and do you have any further comments on fruit flies? Or 2,000 year old petrified trees?
Thought we'd forgotten 'bout them trees, hadn't you? 
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2006 : 04:20:04 [Permalink]
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verlch, try to think of evolution as the ultimate opportunist. "Whatever works for the species shall be the whole of the law." Every generation of every living thing may be slightly modified from its progenitors. Usually, the modifications (mutations) are minor and irrelevant to survival. Sometimes, they are immediately fatal or otherwise harmful to survival and reproduction. But in a few rare cases, these mutations are actually beneficial in species survival (something which you Creationists shrug about and dub as "mere micro-evolution").
But these "micro-evolution" steps add up to major changes, just as the individual steps in a long walk add up to a journey. There can't be "macro-evolution" without "micro-evolution" steps, and micro-evolution implies the macro-evolution journey over time. In fact, it's all one indivisible process, which science recognizes simply as "evolution."
Now, why as a religious person, can't you imagine your deity as wise and capable enough to set up a self-correcting system that fends for itself, and is capable of doing its own design work, through this simple, elegant, opportunistic force of evolution?
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 06/02/2006 05:20:57 |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2006 : 06:39:06 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by verlch
Why would one not want to exist?
That completely misses the point that God is an ass for demanding gratitude for an act that nobody asked him to do.quote:
Evidence, I see life all around me, handywork.
That assumes that life is evidence for God, which is what you've been asked to demonstrate. Nice, circular reasoning, in other words.quote:
Personally I would rather exist...
This isn't about you. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2006 : 06:48:56 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by verlch
quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
quote:
Originally posted by verlch
How do we know that man created all this? We see evidence of his creation, and know that it didn't create itself!!!!
Indeed. Where is there evidence of God's creation? Where is our knowledge that the world did not "create itself?"
Unlike Cune, I see progress here, as it seems like you're working towards a positive hypothesis, namely that there is evidence for God's creation of everything. This is much more rational than spewing garbage along the lines of "polystrate fossils disprove evolution, therefore God exists."
So please, verlch, continue your argument by analogy between human inventions and an alleged divine creation. And then tell us why in the world your God is such a pathetically insecure bully that He demands worship from His own Creation.
I wouldn't call it being an insecure bully, I think he wants his living creation to sweare allegence to Him. I believe he gave life to everything and demands his creaturew worship their maker, and do not do so, at your own pearl. Nobody is forcing us to worship Him. You do so on your own free will. In my opinion of course.
Pearl?
You're becoming incoherent.
You believe that God gave life to everything and demands that his creations worship him. If you don't there's a lot of peril involved. But you have free will so that this insanely jealous thug can kick your ass for all eternity in the afterlife if you don't bow and scrape to Him.
Sounds like a bully to me. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2006 : 07:58:07 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by verlch
See this link
Where is this spirit world we are evolving too????
Come on, man didn't just evolve all these billions of years, out of nothing, to not become a god, did he?
Obviously, you all believe we are evolving, please tell the audience, where we are headed!!!
With no concrete evidence of macro evolution, only hypothesis, and dreams, you have stated, with facts, that evolution holds true. Ok, then where are we headed? Certainly you have all claimed to know that, this is a stop before humans go from apes to gods. Correct me if I missed something Meta physical.
Link reformatted for readability. //Dr. Mabuse
I see, so some religion co-opted the term evolution to mean something that Darwin
1) Never suggested in the first damn place
2) Had nothing what-so-ever to do with in the second place
This is so like throwing shit on Darwin for the Social Darwinism which lead to Hitler and the Eugenicists. Spiritual evolution has no meaning outside religion. It is a man made spiritual sub-path and is suggested from the study of religions that have reincarnation in them.
This is congruent to comparing designated drivers and designated hitters.
You've actually got to go to these lengths to support your anemic and heavily damaged argument against evolution. How pathetic.
Kick the plug out of the wall on your argument, V. It's dead. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2006 : 09:29:44 [Permalink]
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On truth, I found V's link interesting, albeit far afield from whatever the topic might be. quote:
Samkhya
An early example of the doctrine of spiritual evolution is found in Samkhya, a teaching that goes back more than two and a half thousand years (although it's present form dates to around the 4th or 5th century c.e.). Unlike classic Hinduism, the traditional Samkhyan philosophy is atheistic and dualistic. Pure spirit (called purusha) comes into proximity with prakriti (psychophysical nature), disturbing its equilibrium. As a result the original root-prakriti (mulaprakriti) undergoes a series of progressive transformations or unfoldings, in the form of successive essences called tattvas. The most subtle tattwas emerge first, then progressively grosser ones, each in a particular order, and finally the elements and the organs of sense. The goal of evolution however is, paradoxically, the release of prurusha and the return to the unmanifest condition. Hence everything is tending towards a goal of spiritual quiescence (Larson 1979).
Oh, how I loath philosphers! If there is a Hell, they are all comdemned to it, certainly. There, they will spend eternity in a small room listening to each other expound endlessly upon their deepest, philisophical ejaculations...... And the coffee will always be leftover from yesterday; the wine cheap and of a really shitty vintage.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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