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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
 Posted - 07/24/2006 : 13:19:42
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My daughter sent me this link, and she has no clearer idea of its origin than do I. I have no idea what kind of hearing this video shows, but I recognize one or two of the panel members.
If this is a genuine investigation of some kind, and if the alleged computer programmer "testifying" is telling the truth, there have been some very serious election felonies committed by at least one important Republican official in Florida, and the Ohio Presidential tabulation election is questionable in the light of this testimony, as well.
Anyone know when/where/what this hearing is?
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
Edited by - HalfMooner on 07/24/2006 13:28:23
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 07/24/2006 : 14:36:45 [Permalink]
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How long should I wait for buffering before deciding the films have been blocked by the Feds? I only get black screens.
But where have you been? I do believe Congressman Conyers led the investigation. Besides machine fraud the Republicans also systematically significantly suppressed voting in Democratic areas. I guess that means news media control efforts have been successful. The DieBold machine was hacked in minutes on air reversing votes for Bush and Kerry. The evidence for voter fraud and manipulation in Ohio has long passed overwhelming. Bush stole 2000 and 2004 and they will likely steal 2006 if we don't take to the streets or something equivalent. Pay particular attention to any states and/or districts where Congress or Senate seats might change hands. My guess is these guys are not going to give up just because the curtain was pulled back. They know not many people paid attention. |
| Edited by - beskeptigal on 07/24/2006 14:44:33 |
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Chippewa
SFN Regular
USA
1496 Posts |
Posted - 07/24/2006 : 15:20:26 [Permalink]
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More info about Clifton Curtis and his testimony:
http://demopedia.democraticunderground.com/index.php/Clinton_Curtis |
Diversity, independence, innovation and imagination are progressive concepts ultimately alien to the conservative mind.
"TAX AND SPEND" IS GOOD! (TAX: Wealthy corporations who won't go poor even after taxes. SPEND: On public works programs, education, the environment, improvements.) |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 07/24/2006 : 15:58:56 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal
How long should I wait for buffering before deciding the films have been blocked by the Feds? I only get black screens.
But where have you been? I do believe Congressman Conyers led the investigation. Besides machine fraud the Republicans also systematically significantly suppressed voting in Democratic areas. I guess that means news media control efforts have been successful. The DieBold machine was hacked in minutes on air reversing votes for Bush and Kerry. The evidence for voter fraud and manipulation in Ohio has long passed overwhelming. Bush stole 2000 and 2004 and they will likely steal 2006 if we don't take to the streets or something equivalent. Pay particular attention to any states and/or districts where Congress or Senate seats might change hands. My guess is these guys are not going to give up just because the curtain was pulled back. They know not many people paid attention.
I've followed your detailed coverage of election fraud, but I simply did not recognize the venue of the present video (which I'm sorry doesn't work for you.) Was that an official House probe? Why the HELL wasn't it massively covered by all media? (Rhetorical question, as you've covered the problem of corporate news very thoroughly. A refreshed answer is not required.)
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 07/24/2006 : 16:30:06 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Chippewa
More info about Clifton Curtis and his testimony:
http://demopedia.democraticunderground.com/index.php/Clinton_Curtis
Thanks for that link. One thing about Clinton Curtis: I do see signs that he may be a little paranoid. (I should talk!) Maybe he has good reason for this, maybe not. There were several points which seemed to add to his "crank index" score. None of which may necessarily detract from his testimony, however.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 07/24/2006 16:31:10 |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 07/24/2006 : 18:29:05 [Permalink]
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Yes, it was official. They published the results and the Bush regime proceeded to 'back page' it immediately. The public is asleep at the wheel. My thread on media control is no joke. It isn't a small thing.
Here's another from Air America today, and it was on the blogs and in the LA Times a year ago and even I only heard about it today.
Daily Kos Blog
Faith-Based Corruptionquote:
by pastordan
Tue Jan 18, 2005
Let's get one thing straight: I'm sorry if this diary duplicates Lapin's on the same subject.
Now, let's get another thing straight: the Bush administration's faith-based initiatives program is patronage, plain and simple. At least, that's the conclusion of this LATimes article. In particular, the article focuses on FBI funds distributed to black church groups. [Link is to Times search page but below is the article I think they were referring to]
And it is corrupt. That's my conclusion.
A review of the facts below the fold.
* pastordan's diary :: ::
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* The money was concentrated in swing states. That's not a charge leveled by some secular hippie professor; it's an admission made by the program's director.
* Accountability for the program is poor. $1 billion was reportedly spent in 2003, but even the government says that doesn't include all the grants, and the distributions that have been tracked include secular groups--even some state and local governments.
* Groups with ties to the White House or the Republican party also received large grants.
* The White House asked recipients to attend conferences in battleground states, and the director of the program spent two-thirds of his time last year in those same states.
* "...A Capitol Hill summit on the faith initiative and the black church....was beamed to about 50 locations on a television feed sponsored by foundations linked to the Rev. Sun Myung Moon, whose Unification Church has received indirect aid through the federal faith-based initiative."
Times article summary:
Bush Rewarded by Black Pastors' Faith His stands, backed by funding of ministries, redefined the GOP's image with some clergy.quote:
There's no question that the faith initiative -- combined with the administration's support for banning gay marriage and promoting school vouchers -- has already helped reshape [Jeb Bush]'s image among some traditionally Democratic African Americans. And the change in black support on Nov. 2, though only a 2-percentage-point increase nationwide, helped secure Bush's reelection victory. The gains were greater in battleground states.
[Bishop Harold Ray] met Bush when the president was still governor of Texas. After Bush moved to the White House, Ray said he peppered Bush's top political strategist, [Karl Rove], with calls and eventually scored a brief meeting in early 2001 with Ken Mehlman, then Rove's deputy, who takes over this week as chairman of the Republican National Committee.
An assist from the bishop; CREDIT: Rebecca Perry Los Angeles Times; GRAPHIC: Faith-based funding; CREDIT: Doug Stevens Los Angeles Times; GATHERING: President Bush at a meeting of religious leaders at the White House on June 16, 2003. [Bishop Sedgwick Daniels], in a white shirt, sits across from Bush.; PHOTOGRAPHER: Paul Morse White House; GREETING: President Bush talks to Bishop Sedgwick Daniels before a faith-based program at Daniels' church in Milwaukee. The bishop supported [Al Gore] in 2000, but backed Bush last year.; PHOTOGRAPHER: Tina Hager White House
Following letter to Times editor pretty much sums it up. A million or so grant to Pastor Leroy's congrgation and Pastor Leroy tells the flock to vote for Bush.quote:
The Times article also said: "Administration record-keeping has made it difficult to track where the faith-based money has gone." If one thinks that the term "bribery" is too harsh to use in indicting [George W. Bush] for getting these pastors to help him win by spreading their influence over the black voters, then consider what Bush administration official Jim Towey said at one taxpayer-financed White House conference in the midst of the campaign. According to the Times article, Towey declared the faith program a flashpoint in the "culture war" between people of faith and the secular world.
Here's the tally so far:
Darn near complete control of mainstream media.
Voter fraud and abuse in key states either changing votes or making sure thousands of Democrats are purged from the voter registration roles or use of other means to make sure they can't vote like 8 hour waits and mixed up polling addresses or invalidate their votes in a multitude of other ways.
Bribery for votes in the form of million dollar tax money grants to large black or otherwise typically Democratic voting congregations disguised as faith based grants, (wonder how far ahead they planned that one?).
Illegal campaign practices in Texas which once caught were too late to stop the consequences: Election of Republicans to the Texas State offices who then proceeded to redraw the Texas State districts to give all the Congressional seats to Republicans.
And that's not even mentioning the manipulation of stupid voters by various techniques like fake crisis repeatedly near election times, again unclear how much of this is taking advantage of current events or causing them or just lying about them like claiming you've uncovered another plot.
And that's not even mentioning the manipulation of stupid voters by other techniques like Swift Boat lies techniques and drumming up gay hatred, anti-abortion and other religious fundamentalist issues to get voters out.
And that's not even mentioning the seriously high level of corruption in government currently occurring.
And then, since all you need is 51% of the control of government, the Republican Neocon base has pulled all the other stunts like having Democrats meet in the basement at 3 am or no room could be scheduled for hearings, blocking all testifiers from being sworn in, putting bills up for votes which were written in Republican only committees with no chance for Democrats to even read before voting, changing bills after they were passed, writing 'signing' exceptions on most of the bills passed ......
Edited to add: And I haven't yet mentioned stacking the Supreme Court which is the result of an organized well funded effort began in the 1980s that I posted about before.
IT'S SIMPLY UNBELIEVABLE. Literally. I think that's one reason among much of |
| Edited by - beskeptigal on 07/24/2006 18:35:23 |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 07/24/2006 : 19:17:06 [Permalink]
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Here's the vote fraud computer program from Clinton Curtis though I don't know enough about it to tell what this web page really shows.
Here are the other links I followed:
Who Is Clinton Curtis?
Blog entry on Air America It seems the interview noted in the above link with Curtis isn't in the search of Air Am. quote:
Submitted by JoeCanuck on October 28, 2005 - 11:00am
While there have been a number of reports issued and the like (not to mention the glaring inconsistencies easily observed on election day), there seems to be no hard-copy, verifiable evidence of criminal activity. Some might point to testimony of Clinton Curtis as proof, but even that doesn't get much play or attention. As it stands right now, his testimony seems to simply be an accusation. Surely, though, there did appear to be fraud and misconduct.
**edit 11:50AM**
Seems that after I posted this, Jaz provided a post on the next thread about THIS.
While it's true it is "another report", it seems to advance the continuing story.
DOTING ON VOTING Someone Needs to Keep Focused On Ballot Fraud—So We Are; By Margie Burns | June 15, 2005quote:
On March 3, Clinton Curtis passed a lie detector test given to him by Tim Robinson, retired chief polygraph operator for the Florida Department of Law Enforcement, according to the St. Petersburg Times. According to the Times, Feeney has denied the accusations against him.
WHO'S WATCHING?—Curtis's story that he was ordered to conceal a vote-switching program in the "source code" is worrying because there are few or no safeguards in most states to prevent such tampering....
A necessary first step to effective investigation of the voting machine companies—only two companies control over 80 percent of vote counting in the U.S.—would be to compel an investigation by impartial and credentialed observers of the companies' source codes. However, Congress has not pushed very hard for an effective investigation of these companies, which are also substantial corporate campaign donors.
One exception is the questions raised by Representative John Conyers (D-MI), the ranking minority member of the House Judiciary Committee. Conyers has been making a heroic effort to focus congressional attention on election abuses.
In response to citizen protests, an official panel called the Baker-Carter Election Commission has been put together, co-chaired by former President Jimmy Carter and former Secretary of State James A. Baker. Regrettably, the commission's first public hearings on vote fraud focused not on problems in vote counting, suppression of turnout, or on unequal dispersal of voting machines. It considered accusations of fraud by individual voters.
Conyers issued an angry formal statement: "The first meeting of the Baker-Carter election commission was disappointing and, at times, outrageous and tainted with racially charged innuendo," he said. "Let me make absolutely clear that I greatly admire former President Jimmy Carter and believe he was insightful and on-target throughout the hearing. However, given the incredible lack of balance and profound lack of good faith demonstrated by some of Carter's fellow commissioners and many of the witnesses at this hearing, at times he seemed to be a very lonely voice of sanity."
The remarks of James Baker, which were echoed by a number of right-wing political operatives called as witnesses, seemed to have the singular purpose of perpetuating hoaxes and conspiracy theories about ineligible Democratic voters being allowed to cast votes. The remedy was cleverly repeated like a broken record: "photo ID, photo ID, photo ID."
Right-wing pundit John Fund was called as an expert witness by the commission and offered racially charged proposals, with rhetoric in the same nasty spirit. The substance of the testimony alleging "voter fraud" was a fraud itself.
So like a Swift Boat attack, you get the matter relegated to the woo woo conspiracy bin.
The article continues:quote:
Network TV sportscaster Jim Lampley has commented online that "at 5 p.m. Eastern time on Election Day 2004, I checked the sportsbook odds in Las Vegas and via the offshore bookmakers to see the odds as of that moment on the Presidential election. John Kerry was a two-to-one favorite. You can look it up."
Lampley had more to say: "People who have lived in the sports world, as I have, bettors in particular, have a feel for what I am about to say about this: these people are extremely scientific in their assessments. These people understand which information to trust and which indicators to consult in determining where to place a dividing line to influence bets, and they are not in the business of being completely wrong. Oddsmakers consulted exit polling and knew what it meant and acknowledged in their oddsmaking at that moment that John Kerry was winning the election."
The sportscaster Lampley goes on to conclude that the votes, that November day, could not have been fairly and legally counted. He also criticizes media silence and passivity: "Is there any greater imperative than to reverse this crime and re-establish democracy in America?" he muses. "Why the mass silence? Let's go to work with the circumstantial evidence, begin to narrow from the outside in, and find some witnesses who will turn. That's how they cracked Watergate. This is bigger, and I never dreamed I would say that in my baby boomer lifetime."
Take action if your state votes without a paper trail. Here's a form letter site with links to your state so you don't even have to look up an address. |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 07/25/2006 : 03:03:21 [Permalink]
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The Wikipedia article on Clinton Curtis is quite interesting. A life-long Republican, he's actually running in the Democratic primary for a chance to run against the man he's accused of trying to get a vote-cheating program written, Republican Congressman Tom Feeney.
I wouldn't say that the information in the Wikipedia article makes Clinton Curtis someone who should be ignored, but it certainly does muddy the issues. Though for all I know, the Wiki article was a plant by Tom Feeney. Curiouser and curiouser.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 07/25/2006 03:04:29 |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 07/25/2006 : 13:25:46 [Permalink]
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| I dunno, HM. Given the facts as presented, it isn't that surprising one would run against the guy you thought was getting away with such a crime. I found the Wiki article not suspicious at all and Curtis' web page pretty reasonable. I think there is more evidence the guy is telling the truth here (lie detector test by law enforcement official not private company) than evidence he isn't. |
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Original_Intent
SFN Regular
USA
609 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2006 : 09:17:01 [Permalink]
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If there is anything more damning then "strategic voting" to our politics (well besides all that curroption) it is voting machines. Everyone wants to make electronic voting a reality, without facing the reality that it can be curropted during the building of the chips, the machine, the programing, the transprotation, the storage, the settup, the use, the count, and other times I am sure I forgot..
It is a bad idea, and should be stopped. The old-fashion way limits the amount of possible curroption.
Silliness....
Joe |
The Circus of Carnage... because you should be able to deal with politicians like you do pissant noobs. |
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pleco
SFN Addict
USA
2998 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2006 : 09:56:43 [Permalink]
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quote:
The old-fashion way limits the amount of possible curroption.
I don't know about that. Seems to me that the more humans are involved in anything, the amount of error and corruption increases.
I would be in favor of more electronic means of voting, with the proper oversight (if possible).
In the end, however, the way the US poliical system is structured, you are only going to be able to elect from one of two parties in a winner-take-all system. Not a true representative governemnt IMHO. And the only people who can fix it are the people who are best served by keeping it the same. |
by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart. |
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2006 : 14:13:08 [Permalink]
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| I don't mind electronic voting machines, I just want a damn paper trail! |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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Original_Intent
SFN Regular
USA
609 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2006 : 15:19:31 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by pleco
quote:
The old-fashion way limits the amount of possible curroption.
I don't know about that. Seems to me that the more humans are involved in anything, the amount of error and corruption increases.
I would be in favor of more electronic means of voting, with the proper oversight (if possible).
quote:
Originally posted by marfknox
I don't mind electronic voting machines, I just want a damn paper trail!
The oversight means nothing when the tainting of the data can start anytime after the first chip is made. Where does the paper trail come from, tallies on a possible curropt machine?
Pen and paper, machine punching, whatever.. As long as it is read by hand.
Joe |
The Circus of Carnage... because you should be able to deal with politicians like you do pissant noobs. |
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