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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
 Posted - 08/25/2006 : 13:55:52 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by pleco
Apparently over 400 scientists have signed up to test:
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,,1854305,00.html
Won't be long 'til we here the truth...
BTW, the mere fact that 400 scientists immediately stepped forward to test this company's claim makes his previous statement sound extremely dubious. "But we have been unable to get significant scientific interest in it. We have had scientists come in, test it and, off the record, they are quite happy to admit that it works."
If it worked, no scientist in his right mind could be kept quiet about it, let alone refuse to pursue it. That's like suggesting Noah's Ark has been found and there are creationists who are quiet happy to admit it's the ark off the record, but just can't be persuaded to go public with the information. Anyone believe such a thing?
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
| Edited by - H. Humbert on 08/25/2006 13:56:10 |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2006 : 20:10:00 [Permalink]
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H.H. said:
quote:
If it worked, no scientist in his right mind could be kept quiet about it, let alone refuse to pursue it.
That is almost exactly what I said.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2006 : 20:20:24 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dude
That is almost exactly what I said.
Yes, but it bears repeating. 
Seriously, this "scientists don't like change/ideas that overturn established conventions" myth is absurd to anyone who remotely understands how science operates, yet it is amazing the number of times it consistently comes up. Pleco's reference to the 400+ scientists ready to step forward and test this company's device should be abundant evidence of that.
If someone must rely on the fiction that scientists abhor new ideas for any reason in order to explain the lack of support they find for their own claim, then you can know they are either dishonest or hopelessly delusional. (And yes, I'm thinking of Michael).
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
| Edited by - H. Humbert on 08/25/2006 20:31:58 |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2006 : 20:28:16 [Permalink]
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BTW, here's the company's site. Under the "our technology" section you'll find:quote:
Steorn's technology appears to violate the ‘Principle of the Conservation of Energy', considered by many to be the most fundamental principle in our current understanding of the universe. This principle is stated simply as ‘energy can neither be created nor destroyed, it can only change form'.
Steorn is making three claims for its technology:
1. The technology has a coefficient of performance greater than 100%.
2. The operation of the technology (i.e. the creation of energy) is not derived from the degradation of its component parts.
3. There is no identifiable environmental source of the energy (as might be witnessed by a cooling of ambient air temperature).
The sum of these claims is that our technology creates free energy.
This represents a significant challenge to our current understanding of the universe and clearly such claims require independent validation from credible third parties. During 2005 Steorn embarked on a process of independent validation and approached a wide selection of academic institutions. The vast majority of these institutions refused to even look at the technology, however several did. Those who were prepared to complete testing have all confirmed our claims; however none will publicly go on record.
In early 2006 Steorn decided to seek validation from the scientific community in a more public forum, and as a result have published the challenge in The Economist. The company is seeking a jury of twelve qualified experimental physicists to define the tests required, the test centres to be used, monitor the analysis and then publish the results.
Steorn has decided to publish its challenge in The Economist because of the breadth of its readership. "We chose it over a purely scientific magazine simply because we want to make the general public aware that this process is about to commence and to generate public support, awareness, interest etc for what we are doing."
But they didn't so much "publish" the news as pay money to announce it. Not quite the same thing, methinks.
Anyhow, have a look around! |
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Ghost_Skeptic
SFN Regular
Canada
510 Posts |
Posted - 08/26/2006 : 00:48:35 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Cuneiformist
quote:
In early 2006 Steorn decided to seek validation from the scientific community in a more public forum, and as a result have published the challenge in The Economist. The company is seeking a jury of twelve qualified experimental physicists to define the tests required, the test centres to be used, monitor the analysis and then publish the results.
Steorn has decided to publish its challenge in The Economist because of the breadth of its readership. "We chose it over a purely scientific magazine simply because we want to make the general public aware that this process is about to commence and to generate public support, awareness, interest etc for what we are doing."
But they didn't so much "publish" the news as pay money to announce it. Not quite the same thing, methinks.
Anyhow, have a look around!
Methinks they chose of the Economist because its breadth of readership includes more suckers with money to invest.
How about a jury of 9 physicists, an electrical engineer, a mechanical engineer and James Randi to include some people who could detect cheats? |
"You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. / You can send a kid to college but you can't make him think." - B.B. King
History is made by stupid people - The Arrogant Worms
"The greater the ignorance the greater the dogmatism." - William Osler
"Religion is the natural home of the psychopath" - Pat Condell
"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter" - Thomas Jefferson |
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
Posted - 08/28/2006 : 10:00:41 [Permalink]
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| I must say I cant blame those "scientists" who already "confirmed" the results for keeping quiet, I mean what scientist in their right mind would want to be associated with the solution to all the worlds problems. |
"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History
"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 08/28/2006 : 12:54:17 [Permalink]
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Okay, a little devil's advocacy seems in order.
What if the damned thing does work, and this is confirmed by the panel of scientists, and by further testing later, even by skeptics like James Randi? (I know, there is almost zero probability that this thing is for real, but this here's a thought experiment, savvy?)
Okay, say it works. What would this prove? I suspect that if it worked, it would be because it was tapping into an unknown source of energy, rather than creating energy from nothing. The next big problem would be to find out where the energy is coming from, and who or what might be sending us a bill for it later.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 08/28/2006 : 13:24:24 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by HalfMooner
I suspect that if it worked, it would be because it was tapping into an unknown source of energy, rather than creating energy from nothing. The next big problem would be to find out where the energy is coming from, and who or what might be sending us a bill for it later.
No, at that point in time, "big oil" will sic Greenpeace, the EPA any every other environmental group on them for not having done a proper survey of the 7th through 9th dimensions before operating the device, thus dooming countless trillions of previously undetected beings who depend on that energy for their very lives.
And what if it works?
That's when I'll buy a Hummer H8 and not feel a shred of guilt about it. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Paulos23
Skeptic Friend
USA
446 Posts |
Posted - 08/28/2006 : 15:36:15 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by HalfMooner
Okay, say it works. What would this prove? I suspect that if it worked, it would be because it was tapping into an unknown source of energy, rather than creating energy from nothing. The next big problem would be to find out where the energy is coming from, and who or what might be sending us a bill for it later.
Man, that sounds like a sci-fi book by someone...maybe Arther C. Clark? |
You can go wrong by being too skeptical as readily as by being too trusting. -- Robert A. Heinlein
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. -- Aldous Huxley |
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ktesibios
SFN Regular
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 08/28/2006 : 15:40:08 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by HalfMooner
Okay, say it works. What would this prove? I suspect that if it worked, it would be because it was tapping into an unknown source of energy, rather than creating energy from nothing. The next big problem would be to find out where the energy is coming from, and who or what might be sending us a bill for it later.
Ever read Asimov's The Gods Themselves? |
"The Republican agenda is to turn the United States into a third-world shithole." -P.Z.Myers |
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Siberia
SFN Addict
Brazil
2322 Posts |
Posted - 08/28/2006 : 17:52:13 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by ktesibios
quote:
Originally posted by HalfMooner
Okay, say it works. What would this prove? I suspect that if it worked, it would be because it was tapping into an unknown source of energy, rather than creating energy from nothing. The next big problem would be to find out where the energy is coming from, and who or what might be sending us a bill for it later.
Ever read Asimov's The Gods Themselves?
One of my favorite books. |
"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa
"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 08/28/2006 : 19:17:05 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by ktesibios
quote:
Originally posted by HalfMooner
Okay, say it works. What would this prove? I suspect that if it worked, it would be because it was tapping into an unknown source of energy, rather than creating energy from nothing. The next big problem would be to find out where the energy is coming from, and who or what might be sending us a bill for it later.
Ever read Asimov's The Gods Themselves?
No, but I think I will, thank you.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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Paulos23
Skeptic Friend
USA
446 Posts |
Posted - 08/29/2006 : 10:44:23 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by ktesibios
quote:
Originally posted by HalfMooner
Okay, say it works. What would this prove? I suspect that if it worked, it would be because it was tapping into an unknown source of energy, rather than creating energy from nothing. The next big problem would be to find out where the energy is coming from, and who or what might be sending us a bill for it later.
Ever read Asimov's The Gods Themselves?
That was the one I was thinking about. Thanks. |
You can go wrong by being too skeptical as readily as by being too trusting. -- Robert A. Heinlein
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. -- Aldous Huxley |
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