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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 09/15/2006 : 15:10:48 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Original_Intent
Bill Clinton did not one thing that filthy posted. People in the governemnt did, Clinton did not. He had little if anything to do with it.
However, it was Bill Clinton that ran away from Somalia showing bin-Laden our tail between our legs and proving to bin-Laden that the Americans in power, and too many Americans in general, lacked the will to do anything.
It was Clinton that responded with a few lame missles after haveing embasies blown up in two countries.
Here is a view at Clinton's budget.
Bush sucks. Clinton sucks. You can say it Dude, I know you can......
As far as weapony. Iraq and Isreal/Lebanon should change the way we look at high-tech shock and awe (Aw shucks, it's high tech.) Boots on the ground.......
Peace
Joe
That's rather like saying Bush is fighting in Iraq. Of course Clinton didn't "do" all of those things, but he was the leader when they were done and thus, he has the final responsibility for events on his watch. As does Bush.
I ask again: where is Usama bin Laden? Where is the anthrax letter bomber? Do you think that Clinton would have simply written these assholes off? Judging by his administration's previous actions, I don't.
Bush's budget: Would you let him use your credit card? 
Clinton was not the be-all/end-all of leadership, no, but he was miles above the cheap tinhorn we have now.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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| Edited by - filthy on 09/15/2006 17:19:05 |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 09/15/2006 : 16:04:49 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Original_Intent
Bill Clinton did not one thing that filthy posted. People in the governemnt did, Clinton did not. He had little if anything to do with it.
However, it was Bill Clinton that ran away from Somalia showing bin-Laden our tail between our legs and proving to bin-Laden that the Americans in power, and too many Americans in general, lacked the will to do anything.
It was Clinton that responded with a few lame missles after haveing embasies blown up in two countries.
Here is a view at Clinton's budget.
Bush sucks. Clinton sucks. You can say it Dude, I know you can......
As far as weapony. Iraq and Isreal/Lebanon should change the way we look at high-tech shock and awe (Aw shucks, it's high tech.) Boots on the ground.......
Peace
Joe
Clinton was very hands on re terrorism according to Richard Clarke who was head of counter terrorism. None of these guys are perfect. We don't have a corporate free government. But Clinton is miles above Bush, you cannot deny that if we only had the two of them to compare and not the 'ideal' there is no doubt the difference is night and day re competency and effectiveness.
Re Somalia...First there was daily news of starving people and a drumbeat of world wide calls for action. Second, wasn't it Bush Sr who sent in the troops and left Clinton to deal with it? Pretty much a lose lose situation for Clinton. Third, I think Clinton saw right away, after Blackhawk down there wasn't anyone supporting the US being there. It was a civil war. Had Clinton not pulled out, we would have what we have in Iraq and that hasn't weakened any terrorist resolve.
This idea leaving emboldens the terrorists started with Reagan leaving Lebanon. While you can say terrorists saw the pull outs as victories, staying is seen as recruitment posters. |
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Chippewa
SFN Regular
USA
1496 Posts |
Posted - 09/15/2006 : 17:01:15 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Original_Intent
Bill Clinton did not one thing that filthy posted. People in the governemnt did...Bush sucks. Clinton sucks. You can say it Dude, I know you can....
Peace
Joe
Again, more lopsided near-pathological hatred for Clinton, with a few grains of a 'Bush is no better' sentiment to just appear open-minded. This is just shilling for Bush.
And the "You can say it...I know you can" crap is just low-brow bullying. Fake.
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Diversity, independence, innovation and imagination are progressive concepts ultimately alien to the conservative mind.
"TAX AND SPEND" IS GOOD! (TAX: Wealthy corporations who won't go poor even after taxes. SPEND: On public works programs, education, the environment, improvements.) |
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Original_Intent
SFN Regular
USA
609 Posts |
Posted - 09/15/2006 : 18:47:51 [Permalink]
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Filthy: Bush is fighting Iraq, although very poorly. That is his job, and he should be fired. And I don't think he [Clinton] had the final responsibility for these things, anymore then the final responsibility for the terrorist attaks in the embasies. He did have a responsibility to recognize a war, and act accordingly.
And yes, he did write them off, except for a few ill-placed cruise missles. If he hadn't, then the scumbag might not have been around.
Beskeptigal: I (mostly) agree. However, Clinton face of cowardice emboldens the enemy as much, if not more, then the ineffective war in Iraq and Afghanistan. You can cure ineffectiveness, you cannot cure cowardice.
Clinton should have destroyed every one of them in Somalia. He should have given the APC's when requested before the special forces. His increase in forces to gaurd the retreat should have come before to take the advance. War is a sad fact of life. I do hate innocent loss of life. But how many died waiting for food before the US/UN?? 200,000-300,000? And I hate that Reagen left Beruit.
Chippewa..... gees, again with the near-pathological hatred for Clinton? You added lopsided this time..... Shilling??? Please.... So you like your curroption and unconstitutional actions to remain at a certain level? Where's the line? Is there a point system? My mind is wide-open, as are my eyes. Take off the rose-covered Clinton loving glasses....
Peace
Joe
edited for clarity, edit in bold. |
| Edited by - Original_Intent on 09/16/2006 06:38:59 |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 09/15/2006 : 22:10:18 [Permalink]
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quote:
Bush is fighting Iraq, although very poorly. That is his job, and he should be fired. And I don't think he had the final responsibility for these things
Of course Bush has final responsibility.
Otherwise there is no accountability at all. Who wants to live under a government who's officials can't be held accountable?
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 09/16/2006 : 02:24:44 [Permalink]
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His sacrificial lambs are fighting in Iraq; not Bush. Bush, with aid from his daddy, has managed to dodge any real military service quite adroitly. And he didn't have the spine to even serve out a hitch in a gravy unit in the TX National Guard. Further, we spent something like a mil giving him flight training, and he dumped that by skipping out on a flight physical. Probably for good reason. There was to be a drug test with it.
Clinton was a virtual work-a-holic; Bush has shown himself to be lazy as well as stupid.
So, lemmee ask: in the years Bush has been in office, exactly how many terrorists, apart from Tommy Chong and a smattering of Big Easy hookers, has his administration brought to justice? How many plots have been foiled; how many al Qa'da cells have been uncovered since September ninth, two thousand and one? As far as I can tell, all he has to show is a few prisoners in the Gitmo Gulag that he wants to try in secret because he knows that he will never get any convictions in a legitimate court of law.
Bush is the best thing to happen to bin Laden since the Soviets left Afganistan.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Original_Intent
SFN Regular
USA
609 Posts |
Posted - 09/16/2006 : 06:36:00 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dude
quote:
Bush is fighting Iraq, although very poorly. That is his job, and he should be fired. And I don't think he had the final responsibility for these things
Of course Bush has final responsibility.
Otherwise there is no accountability at all. Who wants to live under a government who's officials can't be held accountable?
I was actually talking about Clinton not having the responsibility for the embassies. Bush is 100 percent responsible for Iraq. I should have been clearer and quoted filthy.... Not enough sleep.
Peace
Joe |
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chaloobi
SFN Regular
1620 Posts |
Posted - 09/18/2006 : 08:31:51 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dude
quote:
Bush is fighting Iraq, although very poorly. That is his job, and he should be fired. And I don't think he had the final responsibility for these things
Of course Bush has final responsibility.
Otherwise there is no accountability at all. Who wants to live under a government who's officials can't be held accountable?
Um, how much accountability have you seen in the Bush Administration and their lap dog Congress again???? |
-Chaloobi
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moakley
SFN Regular
USA
1888 Posts |
Posted - 09/18/2006 : 09:26:03 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by filthy
Bush's budget: Would you let him use your credit card?
I'm not so concerned about having GW using my credit card as much as the impact that the Reagan-Bush policies will have on the lives of our children, grand-children, great grand-children, ... The larger the debt, the more money goes to servicing just the interest on that debt, the less money that we will have to put toward useful projects. A $310,000,000,000.00 deficit for the current year being less than the projected deficit should never be viewed as a positive thing.
At some point the citizens of this country will have to pay for such short sighted policies. |
Life is good
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 09/18/2006 : 10:06:20 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by moakley
quote:
Originally posted by filthy
Bush's budget: Would you let him use your credit card?
I'm not so concerned about having GW using my credit card as much as the impact that the Reagan-Bush policies will have on the lives of our children, grand-children, great grand-children, ... The larger the debt, the more money goes to servicing just the interest on that debt, the less money that we will have to put toward useful projects. A $310,000,000,000.00 deficit for the current year being less than the projected deficit should never be viewed as a positive thing.
At some point the citizens of this country will have to pay for such short sighted policies.
In essence, the motherfucker is using our credit cards... 
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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chaloobi
SFN Regular
1620 Posts |
Posted - 09/18/2006 : 10:49:58 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by moakley
quote:
Originally posted by filthy
Bush's budget: Would you let him use your credit card?
I'm not so concerned about having GW using my credit card as much as the impact that the Reagan-Bush policies will have on the lives of our children, grand-children, great grand-children, ... The larger the debt, the more money goes to servicing just the interest on that debt, the less money that we will have to put toward useful projects. A $310,000,000,000.00 deficit for the current year being less than the projected deficit should never be viewed as a positive thing.
At some point the citizens of this country will have to pay for such short sighted policies.
Bush supporters I've talked to are of the opinion that the government CAN'T do useful projects, other than military. So in their minds the less money it has available to do wasteful things like taking care of people that can't take care of themselves, investing in economic infrastructure or eductational infrastructure, the better. Starve the beast, I guess they think of it.... Fools. |
-Chaloobi
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 09/18/2006 : 11:44:18 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by filthy
quote:
Originally posted by moakley
quote:
Originally posted by filthy
Bush's budget: Would you let him use your credit card?
I'm not so concerned about having GW using my credit card as much as the impact that the Reagan-Bush policies will have on the lives of our children, grand-children, great grand-children, ... The larger the debt, the more money goes to servicing just the interest on that debt, the less money that we will have to put toward useful projects. A $310,000,000,000.00 deficit for the current year being less than the projected deficit should never be viewed as a positive thing.
At some point the citizens of this country will have to pay for such short sighted policies.
In essence, the motherfucker is using our credit cards...
Only after sticking us up at gunpoint in a dark alley. He gets both our credit cards and picks our pocket for cash. At least Clinton was paying down our credit cards. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 09/23/2006 : 00:34:21 [Permalink]
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Well this was an interesting correlation to the movie scene with the Casio watch. Seems it wasn't product placement as one person suggested.
Empty Evidencequote:
By Corine Hegland
© National Journal Group Inc.
Friday, Feb. 3, 2006
But then there's the prisoner's Casio watch. According to the Defense Department files, his watch is similar to another Casio model that has a circuit board that Al Qaeda has used for making bombs. The United States is using the Qaeda-favored Casio wristwatch as evidence against at least nine other detainees. But the offending model is sold in sidewalk stands around the world and is worn by one National Journal reporter. The primary difference between Chandler's client's watch and the Casio in question is that the detainee's model hasn't been manufactured for years, according to the U.S. military officer who was his personal representative at the tribunal.
The article has a lot of information contradicting this Rumsfeld quote which it begins with:quote:
"If you think of the people down there, these are people, all of whom were captured on a battlefield. They're terrorists, trainers, bomb makers, recruiters, financiers, [Osama bin Laden's] bodyguards, would-be suicide bombers, probably the 20th 9/11 hijacker."
-- Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, June 27, 2005
So the movie writer it seems, took the Casio watch which has been cited as ridiculous evidence here and turned it into some evil sarcasm spoken by the terrorists. |
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