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Starman
SFN Regular
Sweden
1613 Posts |
 Posted - 10/24/2006 : 23:52:52 [Permalink]
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Air America has canceled all the shows I liked.
(My new work does not allow streaming media either)
Have never been able to stand Rhodes show. |
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Ghost_Skeptic
SFN Regular
Canada
510 Posts |
Posted - 10/25/2006 : 00:53:17 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by mike
Thimerosal(mercury) is still in vaccines. You are simply wrong and ignorant if you believe that. It is public information. Please educate yourselves.
It is not in all vaccines and most of us know that it is still used. As for your recommendation that we educate ourselves, perhaps you should check the poster's (besketigal in this case) profile.
You need to educate yourself on the latest research on the effects or rather non-effects of extremely tiny amounts mercury. |
"You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. / You can send a kid to college but you can't make him think." - B.B. King
History is made by stupid people - The Arrogant Worms
"The greater the ignorance the greater the dogmatism." - William Osler
"Religion is the natural home of the psychopath" - Pat Condell
"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter" - Thomas Jefferson |
| Edited by - Ghost_Skeptic on 10/25/2006 00:59:03 |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 10/25/2006 : 21:26:22 [Permalink]
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| I have posted my follow ups on the Rhodes forum. |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 10/25/2006 : 21:51:58 [Permalink]
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http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2005-07-07-autism-future_x.htm
This USA article on distrust of science over the vaccine issue was pretty good. It's a year old.quote:
Public health leaders need to do a better job of explaining vaccine safety issues to the public, says Peter Sandman, a risk communicator who provides advice to businesses, non-profits and government, including the CDC.
Sandman says advocates on both sides have fallen prey to a tactic he calls "misleading toward the truth." It happens when "you believe you know the truth" but don't trust others to grasp it. "It becomes very tempting to leave out the facts that might mislead the public" toward a different conclusion.
When critics say someone is lying, Sandman says, "you have to say, 'yeah, but are they lying on behalf of the truth or are they lying on behalf of a lie?' "
I think if you include an article supporting the opposite among a batch of research articles supporting the accepted conclusion the people like the anti-vax crowd will ignore the batch and focus on the one aberrant result. Yet I don't want to mislead anyone either. What does anyone else think?
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| Edited by - beskeptigal on 10/25/2006 21:55:24 |
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wombatwal
New Member
Australia
20 Posts |
Posted - 10/25/2006 : 23:06:34 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Ghost_Skeptic
quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal
There seems to be a crowd of liberals that believe any government/corporate conspiracy regardless of the science. The 911 CTers think the NOVA program on "Why the Towers Fell" was government propaganda. They probably believe there is Global Warming because the government is denying it, not because there is sound science there. If the government were backing the science there would likely be a group of CTers developing a theory GWarming was a fake threat to get [fill in the blank].
I have heard it suggested that the efect of CFCs on the ozone layer is a conspiracy by the chemical industry to sell new refrigrants. The 100 mpg carburator that was suppressed by big oil CT is still with us.
quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal
The unembedded scientists are invisible.
They have to start making noise and keep at it because they will be largely ignored.
100mpg carburator, wow, where do you get it.  |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 10/28/2006 : 08:46:27 [Permalink]
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The far left and far right are not really all that different on some things.
It should be obvious to almost anyone that the far left is just as anti-science as the far right is.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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mike
New Member
2 Posts |
Posted - 10/28/2006 : 19:07:01 [Permalink]
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| Science and the FDA/CDC should test highly toxic mercury preservatives before injecting them into children at 120x EPA threshold limits. Plenty of scientists, republicans and conservatives that get this. Randi perverts the issue because she is a partisan hack. |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 10/28/2006 : 19:35:01 [Permalink]
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mike said:
quote:
Randi perverts the issue because she is a partisan hack.
You say that, but you have the gall to promote Malkin? That is hilarious!
<POP> goes my irony gland.
And anyway... I can't tell from your first post if you agree with Rhodes or not. Your point (if you had one) is obscured by your partisan political attack on Rhodes and Maher.
That and your general inability to form a coherent sentence...
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 10/28/2006 : 20:35:09 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by mike
Science and the FDA/CDC should test highly toxic mercury preservatives...
If you already know that they are "highly toxic," why should anyone else test them? What does "highly toxic" even mean? |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 10/28/2006 : 21:36:48 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by mike
Science and the FDA/CDC should test highly toxic mercury preservatives before injecting them into children at 120x EPA threshold limits. Plenty of scientists, republicans and conservatives that get this. Randi perverts the issue because she is a partisan hack.
It was tested before allowed into the public sphere. All drugs must meet basic standards before they are licensed by the FDA including the components like the preservatives and the base a drug is carried in. The final product is what must be tested. And to be approved for children, it must be shown to be safe and effective in children. In addition, for vaccines, each and every lot is tested by the FDA for sterility and potency.
And your 120x the EPA exposure threshold is way off. BTW, welcome to the SFN, Mike.
The EPA has recommended exposure limits for mercury consumption listed as both the total daily dose one should not go over and the total annual dose one should not exceed. (PEL, permissible exposure limit - based on body weight and duration of exposure)
Prior to removal of Thimerisol from the majority of pediatric vaccines, the 24 hour PEL could be slightly exceeded in a single day when infants were given a number of vaccines. But since this was only one day of the year, there was no effect expected as a result. And the Thimerisol has been removed or reduced.
All these uninformed people are having a cow over the fact mercury can be toxic and vaccines are injected. How many toddlers eat tuna sandwiches? Where's the uproar there?
If people would learn a little science and look at actual hazards instead of the boogemen, there would be a lot of 'saved' children every year. Proper safety restraints in vehicles, working smoke alarms, bike helmuts, gun safety locks, cupboard locks for poisons, proper fencing, gate latches and alarms for swimming pools and so on and so on are a much bigger problem than Thimerisol in vaccines. The disease the vaccines prevent are horrendous risks to kids. I'd like to see parenting classes in high school. I think they might prevent some child abuse. And how about the commercials kids are bombarded with and the junk food assaults they are getting fat because of?
Get your priorities straight here. Then look at the actual evidence instead of the hype from the parents with a cause/parents on a mission.
Like I posted on the Rhodes forum, there are thousands of scientists who have looked at the evidence and who are not drug company dupes or in on some conspiracy. The risk from vaccines is negligible compared to the risk from the infections the vaccines prevent. |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 10/28/2006 : 21:46:40 [Permalink]
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Mercury & Thimerosal
"7. Is the mercury in thimerosal (ethylmercury) the same as the kind found in certain fish (methylmercury)?
No. Thimerosal is a very effective preservative that contains a form of mercury called ethylmercury. Thimerosal contains approximately 49% ethylmercury. Thimerosal has been used in some vaccines and other products since the 1930's to help keep them safe from bacterial contamination. In contrast, methyl mercury is an environmental contaminant. In March 2004, the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) and the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) released a joint advisory for the consumption of fish for women who may become pregnant, pregnant women, nursing mothers, and young children. The advisory is based on an EPA standard of 0.1 mcg/kg per day of methylmercury which is not a component of thimerosal."
What You Need to Know about Mercury in Fish and Shellfish
"Food & Drug Administration (FDA) Mercury Levels in Commercial Fish & Shellfish; 2004 EPA and FDA Advice for:
* Women Who Might Become Pregnant
* Women Who are Pregnant
* Nursing Mothers
* Young Children"
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 10/28/2006 : 22:12:14 [Permalink]
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Mercury, in any form, is a very minor health hazard compared to another ingredient present in vaccines. In my humble opinion, the ingredient in vaccines that should be considered unsafe is Dihydogen monoxide (DHMO), which is still used, in undimished concentrations, as a solvent and carrier medium in all childhood vaccines.
The link above reveals many of the dangers of this chemical compound, DHMO. These dangers include (but are not limited to):quote:
* Death due to accidental inhalation of DHMO, even in small quantities.
* Prolonged exposure to solid DHMO causes severe tissue damage.
* Excessive ingestion produces a number of unpleasant though not typically life-threatening side-effects.
* DHMO is a major component of acid rain.
* Gaseous DHMO can cause severe burns.
* Contributes to soil erosion.
* Leads to corrosion and oxidation of many metals.
* Contamination of electrical systems often causes short-circuits.
* Exposure decreases effectiveness of automobile brakes.
* Found in biopsies of pre-cancerous tumors and lesions.
* Given to vicious dogs involved in recent deadly attacks.
* Often associated with killer cyclones in the U.S. Midwest and elsewhere, and in hurricanes including deadly storms in Florida, New Orleans and other areas of the southeastern U.S.
* Thermal variations in DHMO are a suspected contributor to the El Nino weather effect.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 10/29/2006 00:27:28 |
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McQ
Skeptic Friend
USA
258 Posts |
Posted - 10/29/2006 : 07:39:56 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by HalfMooner
Mercury, in any form, is a very minor health hazard compared to another ingredient present in vaccines. In my humble opinion, the ingredient in vaccines that should be considered unsafe is Dihydogen monoxide (DHMO), which is still used, in undimished concentrations, as a solvent and carrier medium in all childhood vaccines.
The link above reveals many of the dangers of this chemical compound, DHMO. These dangers include (but are not limited to):quote:
* Death due to accidental inhalation of DHMO, even in small quantities.
* Prolonged exposure to solid DHMO causes severe tissue damage.
* Excessive ingestion produces a number of unpleasant though not typically life-threatening side-effects.
* DHMO is a major component of acid rain.
* Gaseous DHMO can cause severe burns.
* Contributes to soil erosion.
* Leads to corrosion and oxidation of many metals.
* Contamination of electrical systems often causes short-circuits.
* Exposure decreases effectiveness of automobile brakes.
* Found in biopsies of pre-cancerous tumors and lesions.
* Given to vicious dogs involved in recent deadly attacks.
* Often associated with killer cyclones in the U.S. Midwest and elsewhere, and in hurricanes including deadly storms in Florida, New Orleans and other areas of the southeastern U.S.
* Thermal variations in DHMO are a suspected contributor to the El Nino weather effect.
We must ban it immediately! I'm going to have my house tested for it. I don't want my kids coming in contact with it. Will the horrors of this world never cease???
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Elvis didn't do no drugs!
--Penn Gillette |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 10/29/2006 : 09:54:17 [Permalink]
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| And lets not forget that there is at least some dihydogen monoxide in most if not all vaccines! |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 10/29/2006 : 10:23:50 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal
I have posted my follow ups on the Rhodes forum.
I saw your follow up on the Rhodes forum beskeptigal. Really good! One post jumped out at me that I thought was worth commenting on further. Someone made the claim that aspartame is harmful and that its marketing was some kind of proof that there is a conspiracy going on. The Aspartame thing is a myth. So I have registered over at that forum to mention that.
Those people pretty much make my point from an earlier post of mine in this thread. A political agenda that does not include critical thinking will almost certainly lead to fallacious conclusions. From the left, where matters of health are the concern, we get the New Age…
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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