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dimossi
Skeptic Friend
USA
141 Posts |
 Posted - 01/10/2002 : 13:52:56
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I was quite disappointed recently when me and my wife were flying back from Sweden to the US on American Airlines and they listed "Darrow" as one of the movies they were showing on flights from Europe to US, but on our particular flight we were stuck with "Serendipity"..ugh...instead. But I was delighted to even become aware that there was a movie; with Kevin Spacey to boot; that's subject was the Scopes Monkey Trial and Clarence Darrow. Unfortunately, when I went to look the film up on IMDB in regards to possibly purchasing it, they listed it available only in Pal format and region 2 on DVD and VHS.
I also noticed that there have been quite a few movies made about Clarence Darrow and/or the Scopes Monkey Trial. I am really interested in viewing a reenactment of this agnostic lawyer and this historic trial.
What I would like to know then, is what your opinions are of the various movies that have been made on this subject. How accurate are they? How is the acting? Is the movie readily available? Where can the film be viewed/purchased/downloaded? I would especially like to know if anyone knows of any future airing of "Darrow" or where I might be able to purchase the film in NTFS/Region 1 format. Thanks.
Here are the various filmed versions of the Clarence Darrow / Scopes Trial that I have found so far:
Inherit the Wind (1960) - Spencer Tracy
Clarence Darrow (1978) - Henry Fonda
Inherit the Wind (1988) - Kirk Douglas
Darrow (1991) - Kevin Spacey
Inherit the Wind (1999) - Jack Lemmon
"Life is but a momentary glimpse of the wonder of this astonishing universe, and it is sad to see so many dreaming it away on spiritual fantasy." [Carl Sagan]
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dimossi
Skeptic Friend
USA
141 Posts |
 Posted - 01/11/2002 : 12:32:38 [Permalink]
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Just a note to anyone that might be interested in checking out the 1999 version of "Inherit the Wind" with Jack Lemmon and George C. Scott; it will be on Showtime, this month, on these dates and times:
Inherit the Wind (1999)
SHOW, Tue Jan 22 06:00pm EST
Inherit the Wind (1999)
SHOW, Wed Jan 23 05:55am EST
"Life is but a momentary glimpse of the wonder of this astonishing universe, and it is sad to see so many dreaming it away on spiritual fantasy." [Carl Sagan] |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 01/11/2002 : 13:25:37 [Permalink]
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Thanks. I didn't know there were so many versions. I think I remember reading something about how accurate the movie is, but I don't remember what it said or where. Probably www.infidels.org.
quote:
Just a note to anyone that might be interested in checking out the 1999 version of "Inherit the Wind" with Jack Lemmon and George C. Scott; it will be on Showtime, this month, on these dates and times:
Inherit the Wind (1999)
SHOW, Tue Jan 22 06:00pm EST
Inherit the Wind (1999)
SHOW, Wed Jan 23 05:55am EST
"Life is but a momentary glimpse of the wonder of this astonishing universe, and it is sad to see so many dreaming it away on spiritual fantasy." [Carl Sagan]
"Not one human life should be expended in this reckless violence called a war against terrorism." - Howard Zinn |
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dimossi
Skeptic Friend
USA
141 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2002 : 21:24:52 [Permalink]
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Since my original post on this subject I have seen both "Darrow", with Kevin Spacey; and "Inherit the Wind (1999)", with Jack Lemmon. Both were excellent movies.
My ranking of the movies:
"Inherit the Wind" - 7 / 10
"Darrow" - 7.5 / 10
"Darrow" got the extra half-point for the great acting by Spacey. I was surprised to see that they don't even cover the Scopes Monkey Trial in "Darrow", instead they cover Darrow's earlier days in the courtroom. It is more a look at the man than it is the trials.
Also, I just noticed that on the show - "American Experience" on PBS, Sunday, 17th of February, is an episode dedicated to the Scopes Monkey Trial. I am looking forward to that since I am aware that there are several inaccuracies in the "Inherit the Wind" movie adaptation.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/monkeytrial/
"Life is but a momentary glimpse of the wonder of this astonishing universe, and it is sad to see so many dreaming it away on spiritual fantasy." [Carl Sagan]
Edited by - dimossi on 02/12/2002 21:25:35 |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2002 : 23:39:22 [Permalink]
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quote:
What I would like to know then, is what your opinions are of the various movies that have been made on this subject
I remember seeing the Tracy movie but I was too young to know what it was about. I remember the fans everyone was using and how hot the south must be. Not ever having been to the south/eastren states I don't know for sure how accurate that is, I assume so because I've seen movies about the south before.
From what I know about the actual trial, the ACLU kind of pushed Scopes into it. As I think has happened other times when someone wanted to challenge a law. I've never read news articles of the time so I don't really know if it was as dramatic as the movie. I'm sure people were upset though but you know movies HAVE to make things much more interesting then what really happened.
Well, that's my $1.50 (I understand the price of a movie ticket has gone up)
*
Earth is the insane asylum for the universe.
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PhDreamer
SFN Regular
USA
925 Posts |
Posted - 02/13/2002 : 08:21:26 [Permalink]
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I've read a partial transcript of the trial and the movies' dialogue is remarkably faithful. The exchange between Darrow and Bryan (as defense witness) is such a blatant piece of lawyering by Darrow, it almost seems staged. Also, I don't think the ACLU made any secret of its recruiting of Scopes to be the guniea pig, although Scopes was apparently a very principled man.
Laws of Thermodynamics:
1. You cannot win.
2. You cannot break even.
3. You cannot stop playing the game. |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2002 : 00:33:49 [Permalink]
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quote:
Also, I don't think the ACLU made any secret of its recruiting of Scopes to be the guniea pig, although Scopes was apparently a very principled man.
Ok, thanks PH. But I didn't say it was a secret, I heard or maybe I saw it in the movie that he was reluctant to do it, that's why I said 'pushed'. Was only trying to give some of the info that Dimossi asked about.
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Earth is the insane asylum for the universe.
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PhDreamer
SFN Regular
USA
925 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2002 : 00:37:17 [Permalink]
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quote:
quote:
Also, I don't think the ACLU made any secret of its recruiting of Scopes to be the guniea pig, although Scopes was apparently a very principled man.
Ok, thanks PH. But I didn't say it was a secret, I heard or maybe I saw it in the movie that he was reluctant to do it, that's why I said 'pushed'. Was only trying to give some of the info that Dimossi asked about.
Now, I don't know how much of this was factual, but if you'll recall, in the movie Inherit the Wind, the Scopes character was engaged to the daughter of W.J. Bryan. I suspect that may have been the reason he had obvious anxieties.
Laws of Thermodynamics:
1. You cannot win.
2. You cannot break even.
3. You cannot stop playing the game. |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2002 : 00:42:41 [Permalink]
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quote:
I would especially like to know if anyone knows of any future airing of "Darrow" or where I might be able to purchase the film in NTFS/Region 1 format. Thanks.
Keep in mind, my knowledge of the Internet, computer, and eletornics is from more than 15 years ago but.....
Forgot to say, there used to be machines that 'translate' PAL into other formates. But I guess everything is on those movie disks now....ok, whatever! I still have BETA tapes.  
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Earth is the insane asylum for the universe.
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2002 : 01:00:06 [Permalink]
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quote:
Now, I don't know how much of this was factual, but if you'll recall, in the movie Inherit the Wind, the Scopes character was engaged to the daughter of W.J. Bryan. I suspect that may have been the reason he had obvious anxieties.
No, I didn't recall that PH. I really would like to see it once more. As I said, the only vivid memory of the film was the people waving the fans from the heat.
Maybe PBS will show it sometime. I'm willing to bet, however that, that engagement was at least 1/2 for dramatics. Perhaps he went out with her ONCE! Would be hard to imagin that ol' Bill would let his daughter go out with anyone who'd be a part of that trial, from what I understand of his religious devotion.
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Earth is the insane asylum for the universe.
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Boron10
Religion Moderator
USA
1266 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2002 : 02:19:52 [Permalink]
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quote:
in the movie Inherit the Wind, the Scopes character was engaged to the daughter of W.J. Bryan.
This is not quite true. The Scopes character (Bertram Cates) was engaged to Rachel, the daughter of the local minister (Reverend Jeremiah Brown). It was the minister who called the Bryan character (Matthew Harrison Brady) on the case.
-me. |
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PhDreamer
SFN Regular
USA
925 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2002 : 06:51:27 [Permalink]
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Boron, you are indeed correct. Thank you for paying attention where I lack.
Laws of Thermodynamics:
1. You cannot win.
2. You cannot break even.
3. You cannot stop playing the game. |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 02/15/2002 : 01:11:11 [Permalink]
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quote:
quote:
in the movie Inherit the Wind, the Scopes character was engaged to the daughter of W.J. Bryan.
This is not quite true. The Scopes character (Bertram Cates) was engaged to Rachel, the daughter of the local minister (Reverend Jeremiah Brown). It was the minister who called the Bryan character (Matthew Harrison Brady) on the case.
-me.
OoKay! Well at this point I'm out of the conversation! It's getting too confussing. The names in () are, who? Are they supposed to be the actors who played the characters? Or are they the actual people in the event?
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Earth is the insane asylum for the universe.
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Donnie B.
Skeptic Friend
417 Posts |
Posted - 02/15/2002 : 05:17:10 [Permalink]
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Hi, Snake,
"Inherit the Wind" was fictionalized. It had characters based on the real-life people involved in the Scopes trial, but didn't use those people's real names.
Thus, the prosecutor in the movie was named Matthew Harrison Brady, not William Jennings Bryan.
The real Scopes trial turned out to be a disappointment for almost everybody. The ACLU wanted a test case for the law that banned the teaching of evolution. That is, they wanted Scopes to be convicted so the verdict could be appealed and the law's constitutionality challenged. They got the conviction (unlike in the movie, where the Scopes character was acquitted), but the conviction was overturned at a low appellate level, so the case never got into the higher courts.
Bryan got his conviction, but was made to look like a fool by Darrow. This is rather a shame, because aside from his stance on evolution, Bryan was a powerful and progressive politician who stood up for the rights of the "little guy" against the big money interests of his time.
Perhaps worst of all, because the Scopes case ultimately failed to overturn the law, evolution continued to be banned from school cirricula in many states until the late 1950's and the Sputnik scare, when science education was revamped in the US.
Just goes to show that real life is often a lot more complicated, and less satisfying, than the movies!
-- Donnie B.
Brian: "No, no! You have to think for yourselves!" Crowd: "Yes! We have to think for ourselves!" |
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PhDreamer
SFN Regular
USA
925 Posts |
Posted - 02/15/2002 : 07:34:58 [Permalink]
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Donnie, are you sure the Scopes character was acquitted in the movie? I thought he was convicted and paid a $100 fine.
Laws of Thermodynamics:
1. You cannot win.
2. You cannot break even.
3. You cannot stop playing the game. |
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Donnie B.
Skeptic Friend
417 Posts |
Posted - 02/15/2002 : 12:44:10 [Permalink]
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Actually, now that you mention it, I'm not positive that ItW showed an acquittal. My memory tells me that it showed an unambiguous victory for evolution, but I may be misremembering the detail of the conviction.
-- Another thought... perhaps the newer version of ItW (which I haven't seen) has a different ending from the old Spencer Tracy version?
Of course, the real-world Scopes trial did end in a conviction and fine.
Edited by - Donnie B. on 02/15/2002 12:46:50 |
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