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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
 Posted - 11/04/2006 : 08:40:41 [Permalink]
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quote:
Marf:
… And for what it's worth, I respect the troop who is Iraq because they believe they should be there more than the one who believes the war is wrong and does what he or she is ordered to anyway, or the one who doesn't even bother to think about the morality of their actions.
How does following orders cause you to loose respect for a person who has pledged to follow orders? Even though I, and many others applaud those who have simply refused to fight in this war, those who are stuck there fighting a war they don't agree with probably feel bound by other matters of integrity, like keeping their word. There is nothing simple about the decisions a person in that situation has to make. I refuse to place a value judgment on where a solders personal soul searching and integrity may lead them on that score.
Also, we have been down this road before, and with tragic consequences. The ambivalence we felt toward returning troops during the Vietnam disaster has lead to some serious problems for those who put their ass's on the line only to be ignored or disrespected when they returned home for not choosing “correctly”. (As though, like in this case, they even really had much of a choice.) For those of us who oppose this war it would be great if all the troops who have doubts about it rose up and refused to fight. But again, as a matter of personal integrity, most will not. Choosing to honor your word in the face of a disagreement about the overall plan (I'm not talking about committing war crimes as laid out by the Geneva Conventions and the military code of conduct) as a matter of integrity should also be respected.
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 11/04/2006 : 11:11:05 [Permalink]
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There is a difference between understanding that people have tough choices and are well-intentioned and hero worship.
They are part of a terrorist organization. Why are they worshipped, and those who have "tough choices" that are fighting those same people are not worshipped? Did they have more of a choice? Are they less well-intentioned and honorable? |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 11/04/2006 : 16:53:50 [Permalink]
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quote:
Please show me where I made any such claims or where I have said there is no difference between soldiers and civilian leaders. People keep telling me that I say that all wars are illegal. Show me where I said that. War, by itself, does not violate international law, and I've explained that to you before. .
No dodging here. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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| Edited by - Gorgo on 11/05/2006 10:05:05 |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 11/05/2006 : 10:48:32 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Gorgo
There is a difference between understanding that people have tough choices and are well-intentioned and hero worship.
They are part of a terrorist organization. Why are they worshipped, and those who have "tough choices" that are fighting those same people are not worshipped? Did they have more of a choice? Are they less well-intentioned and honorable?
Strawman. |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 11/05/2006 : 11:27:43 [Permalink]
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| No. A clarification of my earlier question. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 11/05/2006 : 11:33:38 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Gorgo
No. A clarification of my earlier question.
Perhaps I was mistaken. I thought you were replying to my post. Sorry. |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 11/05/2006 : 11:40:46 [Permalink]
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| No. I'm sure I could have been more clear. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 11/05/2006 : 11:48:20 [Permalink]
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quote:
Please show me where I made any such claims or where I have said there is no difference between soldiers and civilian leaders. People keep telling me that I say that all wars are illegal. Show me where I said that. War, by itself, does not violate international law, and I've explained that to you before. .
No dodging here.
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I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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| Edited by - Gorgo on 11/05/2006 20:44:31 |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 11/06/2006 : 04:15:27 [Permalink]
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| I think I was right to begin with. Dude is just here to fuck with people, not to attempt reasonable disussions. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 11/06/2006 : 05:44:11 [Permalink]
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I don't need to dig up your past posts for you. No one here who has read your past rants about how US soldiers are criminals for fighting in this war needs to go look them up. Apparently you are the only one with memory lapse.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 11/06/2006 : 06:10:16 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dude
I don't need to dig up your past posts for you. No one here who has read your past rants about how US soldiers are criminals for fighting in this war needs to go look them up. Apparently you are the only one with memory lapse.
You were right about one thing. I was stupid for thinking it might be worth investing the time to see if you're more than just someone who likes to fuck with people. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 11/06/2006 : 09:12:28 [Permalink]
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You are the one who is frothing at the mouth and claiming that US soldiers are criminals for fighting in Iraq.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 11/06/2006 : 09:26:32 [Permalink]
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| I understand. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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