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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
 Posted - 11/13/2006 : 13:05:49 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by ergo123
quote:
Originally posted by HalfMooner
quote:
Originally posted by ergo123
I don't think dave looked.
I don't think you did. You sure can't prove it from your results.
I have provided as much proof for the existence of Sgt. Schultzes as you have for your categories.
Well, you've certainly proved one of those categories valid.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 11/13/2006 : 13:07:21 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Fripp
Half Mooner,
Excellent analysis of the various threads of late. I, too, had similar thoughts about each poster's similarities (except for the New Age psychic-I must be completely ignoring that thread) and their stubborn and obstinate refusal to objectively look at their philosophical stances.
But you have done an outstanding job at precisely illustrating their myopic foibles with far more depth and eloquence than I could have.
Well stated post all around.
Thanks much, Fripp! 
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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ergo123
BANNED
USA
810 Posts |
Posted - 11/13/2006 : 13:30:12 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by HalfMooner
quote:
Originally posted by ergo123
quote:
Originally posted by HalfMooner
quote:
Originally posted by ergo123
I don't think dave looked.
I don't think you did. You sure can't prove it from your results.
I have provided as much proof for the existence of Sgt. Schultzes as you have for your categories.
Well, you've certainly proved one of those categories valid.
Whatever do you mean, moonie. I've made no claims about the CD Theory and yet have provided a lot of evidence--circumstantial evidence, but that is evidence. |
No witty quotes. I think for myself. |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 11/13/2006 : 15:41:02 [Permalink]
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Ergo wrote: quote:
Whatever do you mean, moonie. I've made no claims about the CD Theory and yet have provided a lot of evidence--circumstantial evidence, but that is evidence.
So, let me attempt to break this down: You say you have provided (alleged) evidence for a claim (the CD "theory," perhaps?) which you do not support? And so if even your evidence was accepted, it would by that logic, prove nothing at all?
Suppose I were to present what I claimed to be evidence of house-sized bat droppings. (Let's ignore for the moment that I presented Web links rather than actual bat droppings). Suppose further that I simply shrugged and refused to take a position on a current and well-known "theory" held by others that explained the alleged droppings by postulating the existence of a Gigantic Bat (or GB). Wouldn't I be inviting people to wonder if I were being either irrational or disingenuous?
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 11/13/2006 15:43:03 |
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ergo123
BANNED
USA
810 Posts |
Posted - 11/13/2006 : 17:07:53 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by HalfMooner
Ergo wrote: quote:
Whatever do you mean, moonie. I've made no claims about the CD Theory and yet have provided a lot of evidence--circumstantial evidence, but that is evidence.
So, let me attempt to break this down: You say you have provided (alleged) evidence for a claim (the CD "theory," perhaps?) which you do not support? And so if even your evidence was accepted, it would by that logic, prove nothing at all?
Suppose I were to present what I claimed to be evidence of house-sized bat droppings. (Let's ignore for the moment that I presented Web links rather than actual bat droppings). Suppose further that I simply shrugged and refused to take a position on a current and well-known "theory" held by others that explained the alleged droppings by postulating the existence of a Gigantic Bat (or GB). Wouldn't I be inviting people to wonder if I were being either irrational or disingenuous?
Do you work at being this stupid, moonie--or does it come natural to you.
I don't know how to slice it into smaller bits for you.
There are things I believe to be true and things I know to be true.
There are things I believe to be false and things I know to be false.
I know to be true that the twin towers collapsed on 9/11.
I believe it was due to a controlled demolition. So far, the only evidence I have for the CD is circumstantial--and there is a lot of it.
But in my mind, the circumstantial evidence pointing to CD is more compelling than the story the government fed us--that is based on no evidence at all.
I realize I am unlikely to convince any of the "regulars" here of anything based on circumstantial evidence--because if a conclusion requires you to connect 2 dots, it seems beyond you. It's funny, because kil concludes his assumptions about a poll question impact the quality of the data it collects (I'm not sure where that conclusion comes from, but it seems like it is something a person missing a few dots from his dice would come up with!).
Maybe the CD theory just isn't absurd enough for the regulars to believe!
In any case, moonie, you seem to be unable to understand how one can have a belief that is not yet strong enough, or not yet built upon enough evidence, for the one with the belief to make a claim about it.
But then, I guess a guy like you goes from ignorance to "the answer" in one step. And, apparently, once you have the answer, there is no need to reconsider it... |
No witty quotes. I think for myself. |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 11/13/2006 : 17:52:20 [Permalink]
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Ergo Wrote: "Do you work at being this stupid, moonie--or does it come natural to you."
I really break a sweat doing it. And I'm jealous: You make it look so easy.
Sorry, all I get out of the rest is more bat-shit.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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R.Wreck
SFN Regular
USA
1191 Posts |
Posted - 11/13/2006 : 19:36:07 [Permalink]
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quote:
But in my mind, the circumstantial evidence pointing to CD is more compelling than the story the government fed us--that is based on no evidence at all.
Other than a couple of airliners damn near full of jet fuel hitting the buildings, of course. |
The foundation of morality is to . . . give up pretending to believe that for which there is no evidence, and repeating unintelligible propositions about things beyond the possibliities of knowledge.
T. H. Huxley
The Cattle Prod of Enlightened Compassion
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Antigone
New Member
44 Posts |
Posted - 11/15/2006 : 11:39:39 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by ergo123
Do you work at being this stupid, moonie--or does it come natural to you.
I don't know how to slice it into smaller bits for you.
There are things I believe to be true and things I know to be true.
There are things I believe to be false and things I know to be false.
I know to be true that the twin towers collapsed on 9/11.
I believe it was due to a controlled demolition. So far, the only evidence I have for the CD is circumstantial--and there is a lot of it.
But in my mind, the circumstantial evidence pointing to CD is more compelling than the story the government fed us--that is based on no evidence at all.
I realize I am unlikely to convince any of the "regulars" here of anything based on circumstantial evidence--because if a conclusion requires you to connect 2 dots, it seems beyond you. It's funny, because kil concludes his assumptions about a poll question impact the quality of the data it collects (I'm not sure where that conclusion comes from, but it seems like it is something a person missing a few dots from his dice would come up with!).
Maybe the CD theory just isn't absurd enough for the regulars to believe!
In any case, moonie, you seem to be unable to understand how one can have a belief that is not yet strong enough, or not yet built upon enough evidence, for the one with the belief to make a claim about it.
But then, I guess a guy like you goes from ignorance to "the answer" in one step. And, apparently, once you have the answer, there is no need to reconsider it...
I have a hard time with you saying "beieving what the government fed us"
On that day when I saw the planes hit and the towers fall I was not thinking, "the government is showing me or feeding me this information that I am now using to form an opinion on what is happening"
I thought, "holy shit, planes hit the towers, thousands of people are dying, and now the towers just fell"
Cause and effect:
I saw the planes hit
there was fire
towers fell
I had the opinion the planes caused the fire, which caused the towers to fall, see how that works?
Then, when my uncle came back home from NY City, I got an eye witness account ... well, we were all eye witnesses, but he was on the ground, up front, experienced ALL of it. He also saw the plane hit (the second one) and saw the first tower fall. He talked with others that night who were closer and some who escaped the towers.
NO ONE HEARD OR SAW A BOMB GO OFF right before the towers fell. There was no CD.
The government didn't feed me this, unless you think the government forced all the people my uncle talked to that night to lie to him, and made my uncle lie to me about what he saw, heard and felt.
I'd rather form my opinion on eye witnesses than on conspiracy theorists like you...or anyone else for that matter.
And, don't you think these comments:
Do you work at being this stupid, moonie--or does it come natural to you.
I don't know how to slice it into smaller bits for you.
are ineffective in a debate? I'm sure it makes people shutdown to your whole post when they read that. Its counter-productive. You might think you are insulting the other person, but the person really insulted is you, especially in a forum like this where reason and logical conversation are held in high regard. |
Mortui non dolent |
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ergo123
BANNED
USA
810 Posts |
Posted - 11/15/2006 : 11:56:43 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Antigone
quote:
Originally posted by ergo123
Do you work at being this stupid, moonie--or does it come natural to you.
I don't know how to slice it into smaller bits for you.
There are things I believe to be true and things I know to be true.
There are things I believe to be false and things I know to be false.
I know to be true that the twin towers collapsed on 9/11.
I believe it was due to a controlled demolition. So far, the only evidence I have for the CD is circumstantial--and there is a lot of it.
But in my mind, the circumstantial evidence pointing to CD is more compelling than the story the government fed us--that is based on no evidence at all.
I realize I am unlikely to convince any of the "regulars" here of anything based on circumstantial evidence--because if a conclusion requires you to connect 2 dots, it seems beyond you. It's funny, because kil concludes his assumptions about a poll question impact the quality of the data it collects (I'm not sure where that conclusion comes from, but it seems like it is something a person missing a few dots from his dice would come up with!).
Maybe the CD theory just isn't absurd enough for the regulars to believe!
In any case, moonie, you seem to be unable to understand how one can have a belief that is not yet strong enough, or not yet built upon enough evidence, for the one with the belief to make a claim about it.
But then, I guess a guy like you goes from ignorance to "the answer" in one step. And, apparently, once you have the answer, there is no need to reconsider it...
I have a hard time with you saying "beieving what the government fed us"
On that day when I saw the planes hit and the towers fall I was not thinking, "the government is showing me or feeding me this information that I am now using to form an opinion on what is happening"
I thought, "holy shit, planes hit the towers, thousands of people are dying, and now the towers just fell"
Cause and effect:
I saw the planes hit
there was fire
towers fell
Brilliant. What you saw is what happened. When you see a woman sawed in two by a magician, do you believe thathappened, too? Is it possible that events you did not see occurred at the towers? Is the war in Iraq not happening if you don't see it happening?
Basing your understanding of reality only on what you see and hear is... well... let's just say "limiting."
quote:
I had the opinion the planes caused the fire, which caused the towers to fall, see how that works?
Yes. I see. And if the government is behind the whole thing and brought the buildings down in a CD, then I'm sure they were betting on good old reasoning like yours to save their asses.
quote:
Then, when my uncle came back home from NY City, I got an eye witness account ... well, we were all eye witnesses, but he was on the ground, up front, experienced ALL of it. He also saw the plane hit (the second one) and saw the first tower fall. He talked with others that night who were closer and some who escaped the towers.
NO ONE HEARD OR SAW A BOMB GO OFF right before the towers fell. There was no CD.
Are you claiming "there was no CD" and using your Uncle's report that "NO ONE HEARD OR SAW A BOMB GO OFF right before the towers fell" as your supporting evidence?
quote:
The government didn't feed me this, unless you think the government forced all the people my uncle talked to that night to lie to him, and made my uncle lie to me about what he saw, heard and felt.
Is it also not possible that things occurred that your Uncle and those he talked to didn't experience?
quote:
I'd rather form my opinion on eye witnesses than on conspiracy theorists like you...or anyone else for that matter.
That is certainly your choice to make. Although it has been proven that eyewitness accounts of events tend to be inaccurate.
quote:
And, don't you think these comments:
Do you work at being this stupid, moonie--or does it come natural to you.
I don't know how to slice it into smaller bits for you.
are ineffective in a debate? I'm sure it makes people shutdown to your whole post when they read that.
It depends what effect you are referring to. |
No witty quotes. I think for myself. |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 11/15/2006 : 12:45:08 [Permalink]
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Why be so nasty to someone who was there? You are really starting to piss me off, Ergo.
Yeah, Ergo: Don't believe your eyes, believe the strangest, most paranoid, tale you can find, instead. All those so-called "witnesses" are just sheeple. Everyone in NYC is either part of The Plot oris an idiot. But not you, you know the Illuminati done it! A guy would have to be crazy not to see that.
Ergo, you are only continuing to insult people here, as well as their common sense and intelligence. That's essentially all you do. You appear more and more like a hostile, bitter, raving paranoid. Insults seem to be your only "argument." You got nothing. You've presented no real evidence. If you had, you'd have no need to be so nasty to everyone.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 11/15/2006 12:46:46 |
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ergo123
BANNED
USA
810 Posts |
Posted - 11/15/2006 : 13:27:44 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by HalfMooner
Why be so nasty to someone who was there? You are really starting to piss me off, Ergo.
Yeah, Ergo: Don't believe your eyes, believe the strangest, most paranoid, tale you can find, instead. All those so-called "witnesses" are just sheeple. Everyone in NYC is either part of The Plot oris an idiot. But not you, you know the Illuminati done it! A guy would have to be crazy not to see that.
Ergo, you are only continuing to insult people here, as well as their common sense and intelligence. That's essentially all you do. You appear more and more like a hostile, bitter, raving paranoid. Insults seem to be your only "argument." You got nothing. You've presented no real evidence. If you had, you'd have no need to be so nasty to everyone.
Moonie: Why do you resort to this emotional over-exaggerration?
I'm not being nasty to anyone who was there. I'm questioning the accuracy of eyewitness accounts. If eyewitness accounts were so accurate, why did NIST, FEMA and the 9/11 Commissions ignore most of them? If questioning the accuracy of eyewitness accounts pisses you off, then I guess the US criminal justice system pisses you off, too...
And like I have said dozens of times here (and many directly to you!), I don't know it was a cd--I believe it was; it is my opinion that it was. Kil has opinions about his recent poll--contradictory opinion at that!--and you don't give him crap for those opinions. Why do you give me crap for mine? |
No witty quotes. I think for myself. |
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furshur
SFN Regular
USA
1536 Posts |
Posted - 11/15/2006 : 13:43:32 [Permalink]
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quote:
But in my mind, the circumstantial evidence pointing to CD is more compelling than the story the government fed us.
Well, your mind is evidently flawed on at least 3 points then.
1. Your circumstantial evidence is absurdly weak.
2. Your weak circumstantial evidence can point to many possibilities not just CD
3. The goverment did not feed us a story. The conclusions of the Civil Engineering and Metallurgical departments of major universities (NorthWestern, MIT, Stanford and the University of Sydney to name a few) agree that planes and the subsequent fires brought down the towers.
If you don't trust the goverment; go to other sources. Oh, I'm sorry, I mean knowledgable sources instead of psycho fringe sources.
Why do you think you have this need to believe these incredible conspiracy stories.
PS: Why are you so angry?
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If I knew then what I know now then I would know more now than I know. |
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Antigone
New Member
44 Posts |
Posted - 11/15/2006 : 14:42:13 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by ergo123
quote:
Originally posted by Antigone
I have a hard time with you saying "beieving what the government fed us"
On that day when I saw the planes hit and the towers fall I was not thinking, "the government is showing me or feeding me this information that I am now using to form an opinion on what is happening"
I thought, "holy shit, planes hit the towers, thousands of people are dying, and now the towers just fell"
Cause and effect:
I saw the planes hit
there was fire
towers fell
Brilliant. What you saw is what happened. When you see a woman sawed in two by a magician, do you believe thathappened, too? Is it possible that events you did not see occurred at the towers? Is the war in Iraq not happening if you don't see it happening?
Basing your understanding of reality only on what you see and hear is... well... let's just say "limiting."
quote:
I had the opinion the planes caused the fire, which caused the towers to fall, see how that works?
Yes. I see. And if the government is behind the whole thing and brought the buildings down in a CD, then I'm sure they were betting on good old reasoning like yours to save their asses.
quote:
Then, when my uncle came back home from NY City, I got an eye witness account ... well, we were all eye witnesses, but he was on the ground, up front, experienced ALL of it. He also saw the plane hit (the second one) and saw the first tower fall. He talked with others that night who were closer and some who escaped the towers.
NO ONE HEARD OR SAW A BOMB GO OFF right before the towers fell. There was no CD.
Are you claiming "there was no CD" and using your Uncle's report that "NO ONE HEARD OR SAW A BOMB GO OFF right before the towers fell" as your supporting evidence?
quote:
The government didn't feed me this, unless you think the government forced all the people my uncle talked to that night to lie to him, and made my uncle lie to me about what he saw, heard and felt.
Is it also not possible that things occurred that your Uncle and those he talked to didn't experience?
quote:
I'd rather form my opinion on eye witnesses than on conspiracy theorists like you...or anyone else for that matter.
That is certainly your choice to make. Although it has been proven that eyewitness accounts of events tend to be inaccurate.
quote:
And, don't you think these comments:
Do you work at being this stupid, moonie--or does it come natural to you.
I don't know how to slice it into smaller bits for you.
are ineffective in a debate? I'm sure it makes people shutdown to your whole post when they read that.
It depends what effect you are referring to.
Ergo, my argument is that my opinion and thoughts on what happened that day has nothing to do with the government feeding me anything. I wrote what I did to show you MY thought process that day. I did not wait for the governemnt to comment or investigations to conclude. You made the claim that people believe what they do about 9-11 because of the government, I am saying that isn't so. I am sure my uncle didn't give a rats arse what government officials were going to say when he witnessed what he did, and those people who spoke with that night sure hadn't watched any official response on the news before speaking with him. I am giving you examples of people forming their opinions and beliefs without government 'help' ... not giving evidence for 'what really happened'. If I was going to give evidence for what I believe took place I would have cited scientific data (which I am assuming you have already read up on).
And your comment on eye witness accounts and saying its just like believing a woman is being sawed in half at a magic show: don't be ridiculous. Do not insult my intelligence by saying I cannot tell the difference between a magic show and real life.
What I am doing, by the way, is basing my opinion that I formed my beliefs about 9-11 by what I saw on the news and my uncle's accounts, not on the government.
Yes. I see. And if the government is behind the whole thing and brought the buildings down in a CD, then I'm sure they were betting on good old reasoning like yours to save their asses.
My opinion was formed first then was backed up by the evidence from scientists. IF scientists found real evidence of explosives at the site or any other evidence supporting anything other than what I had already believed, I would have 'upgraded' my opinions and beliefs. again, do not insult my intelligence. I am fully capable of reason and logic. I have a pretty good scientific background and have learned to gather data from a variety of sources (my own senses included).
So lets get back to your claim that we are all forming our beliefs on what the government is feeding us. This is the issue I have with you. How did the government feed me anything before they even made comments about 9-11? How did the people my uncle spoke to that night completely miss the 'fact' that a bomb went off? How could so many be mistaken about that? And how did the government feed them the info they exchanged with each other when they weren't able to watch TV sinse they were all stranded on the street? Was it collective amnesia? collective 'make-believe'? collective brainwashing? |
Mortui non dolent |
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McQ
Skeptic Friend
USA
258 Posts |
Posted - 11/15/2006 : 14:51:17 [Permalink]
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I tried to tell you guys that ego was a total nitwit, who wants only to be a pain in the ass to everyone he comes in contact with. But Nooooooooo...., you had to ignore me and keep trying to argue with him.
Does this most recent whacked out out piece of drivel convince anyone else that trying to debate, discuss, argue with him is anything more than school yard shouting? Hell, even school yard shouting gets people farther than this crap.
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Elvis didn't do no drugs!
--Penn Gillette |
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ergo123
BANNED
USA
810 Posts |
Posted - 11/15/2006 : 16:16:07 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Antigone
quote:
Originally posted by ergo123
quote:
Originally posted by Antigone
I have a hard time with you saying "beieving what the government fed us"
On that day when I saw the planes hit and the towers fall I was not thinking, "the government is showing me or feeding me this information that I am now using to form an opinion on what is happening"
I thought, "holy shit, planes hit the towers, thousands of people are dying, and now the towers just fell"
Cause and effect:
I saw the planes hit
there was fire
towers fell
Brilliant. What you saw is what happened. When you see a woman sawed in two by a magician, do you believe thathappened, too? Is it possible that events you did not see occurred at the towers? Is the war in Iraq not happening if you don't see it happening?
Basing your understanding of reality only on what you see and hear is... well... let's just say "limiting."
quote:
I had the opinion the planes caused the fire, which caused the towers to fall, see how that works?
Yes. I see. And if the government is behind the whole thing and brought the buildings down in a CD, then I'm sure they were betting on good old reasoning like yours to save their asses.
quote:
Then, when my uncle came back home from NY City, I got an eye witness account ... well, we were all eye witnesses, but he was on the ground, up front, experienced ALL of it. He also saw the plane hit (the second one) and saw the first tower fall. He talked with others that night who were closer and some who escaped the towers.
NO ONE HEARD OR SAW A BOMB GO OFF right before the towers fell. There was no CD.
Are you claiming "there was no CD" and using your Uncle's report that "NO ONE HEARD OR SAW A BOMB GO OFF right before the towers fell" as your supporting evidence?
quote:
The government didn't feed me this, unless you think the government forced all the people my uncle talked to that night to lie to him, and made my uncle lie to me about what he saw, heard and felt.
Is it also not possible that things occurred that your Uncle and those he talked to didn't experience?
quote:
I'd rather form my opinion on eye witnesses than on conspiracy theorists like you...or anyone else for that matter.
That is certainly your choice to make. Although it has been proven that eyewitness accounts of events tend to be inaccurate.
quote:
And, don't you think these comments:
Do you work at being this stupid, moonie--or does it come natural to you.
I don't know how to slice it into smaller bits for you.
are ineffective in a debate? I'm sure it makes people shutdown to y |
No witty quotes. I think for myself. |
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