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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
 Posted - 11/14/2006 : 12:08:32 [Permalink]
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The US is to Africa as Christianity is to Islam. Both are full of humans and Benny Hinn should be sent to Nigeria to be stoned to death.
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"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History
"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini |
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austin
New Member
10 Posts |
Posted - 11/21/2006 : 12:28:03 [Permalink]
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Sorry I took so long.
Heresy just means you are against important doctrines of the religion, which Benny Hinn is, making him a heretic. Burning is irrelevant, especially since it's not a Christian practice. Do not pair me with the people of the middle ages who used the Catholic church for political power. Historically, real Christians have always been the victims of religious persecution - always. Christians never burn at the stake, nor were we commanded to do any such thing. In fact, see the following Scripture, which is shockingly applicable to the medieval burning:
"They have built the high places of Topheth in the Valley of Ben Hinnom to burn their sons and daughters in the fire—something I did not command, nor did it enter my mind."
-Jeremiah 7:31 (NIV)
Now, about exposing Benny Hinn (and those like him: Paul Crouch, etc.) - Christians have been doing that for years, so you're only helping.
Now, about time as it relates to legitimacy - fine, my bad. It was a minor detail anyway. Doctrine isn't even Benny Hinn's main problem. The main problem is his behavior. He is a thief, a liar, and a fake. That's enough. |
"Nietzsche is dead"
-God |
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perrodetokio
Skeptic Friend
275 Posts |
Posted - 12/19/2006 : 14:30:59 [Permalink]
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quote:
Stoning is not mentioned in the Koran.
quote:
It is reiterated that it is not Islamic faith that is to be defamed. Nor is the Islamic legal system of sharia challenged, but the barbaric capital punishment of stoning, which is in uttermost contrast to human dignity inherent to all human beings. The mere fact that the dignity of the human being is a concern of all cultures and religions should give the impetus to discuss the matter rather than to dismiss it under the pretext that a discussion would constitute a defamation of cultural traditions. Within Islam, too, there are scholarly voices that doubt the eligibility of stoning as a legitimate form of punishment within Islamic jurisprudence. In addition, not every Islamic state which constitutionally bases its judicial system on Islamic jurisprudence as the principal source of legislation, e.g. Egypt and the Maldives, has introduced stoning as a form of punishment or carries out stoning sentences.
For some reason, the stoning of women found "guilty" of "adultery" seems similar to the cases where raped women (who many times became pregnant) would be punished by christian communities in europe until not too long ago.
Similar things happen in many latin american countries, ie: no-one ever blames the man, only the women (the men were acting rightously according to their muy macho-status).
What a load of caca!
salud! |
"Yes I have a belief in a creator/God but do not know that he exists." Bill Scott
"They are still mosquitoes! They did not turn into whales or lizards or anything else. They are still mosquitoes!..." Bill Scott
"We should have millions of missing links or transition fossils showing a fish turning into a philosopher..." Bill Scott |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 12/19/2006 : 15:37:43 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by austin
. . .
Heresy just means you are against important doctrines of the religion, which Benny Hinn is, making him a heretic. Burning is irrelevant, especially since it's not a Christian practice. Do not pair me with the people of the middle ages who used the Catholic church for political power. Historically, real Christians have always been the victims of religious persecution - always. Christians never burn at the stake, nor were we commanded to do any such thing. In fact, see the following Scripture, which is shockingly applicable to the medieval burning:
"They have built the high places of Topheth in the Valley of Ben Hinnom to burn their sons and daughters in the fire—something I did not command, nor did it enter my mind."
-Jeremiah 7:31 (NIV)
. . .
Doctrine isn't even Benny Hinn's main problem. The main problem is his behavior. He is a thief, a liar, and a fake. That's enough.
[My emphasis.]
Christians, especially doing it in the name of Christ, have been the main human burners of history!
"Christians never burn at the stake"? That's like saying that no Americans ever held slaves, on the principle that if a person held slaves, he wasn't a "real" American. It won't wash.
"Christians never burn at the stake"? Tell that to Jacques de Molay (1314), Jan Hus (1415), St Joan of Arc (May 30, 1431), William Tyndale (1536), Michael Servetus (1553), Giordano Bruno (1600), and Avvakum (1682). Anglican martyrs Hugh Latimer and Nicholas Ridley (both in 1555), and Thomas Cranmer (1556) [Wiki]. Tell it to thousands of European "witches." Tell it to Justinian, who authorized burning at the stake as a punishment for heresy, and all the Popes, Bishops, and councils which reaffirmed it later.
Okay, you'll likely say, "Those were not real Christians, who did the burning, just power-hungry Catholics!" That's a cop-out, and intellectually dishonest. It's also religious bigotry to deny that Catholics are Christians, even if you might honestly feel they are, or once were, bad ones. In matters of religion, it's best to accept the self-definitions of people. If they thought they were Christians, they were. Denying that Christians committed atrocities is the grossest kind of historical revisionism, even if by using this definitional trick. You should instead just admit that some Christians have behaved in an evil way. Just as I admit that some atheists have.
Your scriptural quote is totally irrelevant; it is about God banning the burning of children as sacrifices to himself, not the burning of heretics as punishment. That was lame.
On Benny Hinn, I'd say his being a "thief, a liar, and a fake" is the only problem.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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Siberia
SFN Addict
Brazil
2322 Posts |
Posted - 12/19/2006 : 16:06:55 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by austin
Sorry I took so long.
Heresy just means you are against important doctrines of the religion, which Benny Hinn is, making him a heretic. Burning is irrelevant, especially since it's not a Christian practice. Do not pair me with the people of the middle ages who used the Catholic church for political power. Historically, real Christians have always been the victims of religious persecution - always. Christians never burn at the stake, nor were we commanded to do any such thing. In fact, see the following Scripture, which is shockingly applicable to the medieval burning:
"They have built the high places of Topheth in the Valley of Ben Hinnom to burn their sons and daughters in the fire—something I did not command, nor did it enter my mind."
-Jeremiah 7:31 (NIV)
Now, about exposing Benny Hinn (and those like him: Paul Crouch, etc.) - Christians have been doing that for years, so you're only helping.
Now, about time as it relates to legitimacy - fine, my bad. It was a minor detail anyway. Doctrine isn't even Benny Hinn's main problem. The main problem is his behavior. He is a thief, a liar, and a fake. That's enough.
But it does endorse stoning, doesn't it? |
"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa
"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 12/19/2006 : 22:09:25 [Permalink]
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From the Koran Search Engine:
The Cow
1. [2.24] But if you do (it) not and never shall you do (it), then be on your guard against the fire of which men and stones are the fuel; it is prepared for the unbelievers.
The Accessions
1. [8.32] And when they said: O Allah! if this is the truth from Thee, then rain upon us stones from heaven or inflict on us a painful punishment.
The Holy Prophet
1. [11.82] So when Our decree came to pass, We turned them upside down and rained down upon them stones, of what had been decreed, one after another.
The Rock
1. [15.74] Thus did We turn it upside down, and rained down upon them stones of what had been decreed.
The Moon
1. [54.34] Surely We sent upon them a stonestorm, except Lut's followers; We saved them a little before daybreak,
The Prohibition
1. [66.6] O you who believe! save yourselves and your families from a fire whose fuel is men and stones; over it are angels stern and strong, they do not disobey Allah in what He commands them, and do as they are commanded.
The Elephant
1. [105.4] Casting against them stones of baked clay,
You'll have to go to the passages to read the context. But, in my opinion, it doesn't help. Frankly, I don't find the typical translations of the Koran to make much sense. But then neither does a lot of the Bible.
In the Skeptics Annotated Quran, there are several passages where God rains down stones on people. I couldn't find any 'Commandments' or anything resembling "Sharia Law" that mentions stoning on either site.
Here's the return searching for 'law' in the Koran.
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| Edited by - beskeptigal on 12/19/2006 22:14:09 |
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