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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
 Posted - 01/16/2002 : 08:43:18 [Permalink]
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As far as the blindsight test - I had 100% (8)when I was sure I saw it. I had 16% (16% of 12)when I didn't think I saw it, and I had no trials where I wasn't sure. This is out of 20 attempts.
"Not one human life should be expended in this reckless violence called a war against terrorism." - Howard Zinn
Edited by - gorgo on 01/16/2002 08:44:32
Edited by - gorgo on 01/16/2002 08:45:57 |
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ktesibios
SFN Regular
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 01/17/2002 : 04:52:30 [Permalink]
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quote:
3. To get to Kil's comments, I'm not sure what you mean by social construct. I am told that heroin is very pleasurable. I am told that most heroin users lead productive lives. I am told that the withdrawal effects of all but the most severe users are very minor. The most severe users get flu-like symptoms for a weekend. Nothing like heavy alcohol users.
This is just an unscientific anecdote, but I'm gonna tell it anyway.
About ten years ago a very close friend was hurt in a car accident. She spent a few months under the care of a doctor (to whom she was referred by the lawyer who was suing the insurance company of the genius who had blown a red light and slammed into her car) whose interest now seems to have lain more in running up an impressive bill for the suit than in curing her persistent pain. Among the things he prescribed were Percocets, a narcotic painkiller, which she took regularly for perhaps three months.
At that point, prompted by the death of her father, she decided to move back home to Pittsburgh.
A few days after she left, I started getting hysterical phone calls. She couldn't sleep, she felt extremely agitated and frightened and sick all the time- she was just bouncing off the walls, and it had just suddenly come upon her without any apparent reason.
Neither of us could understand it until I noticed, during one conversation, that she was sniffling an awful lot. When she told me that it had started at the same time as the agitation, I got suspicious, and when she confirmed that she'd lately had the trots it all fell into place.
A visit to a doctor there confirmed it for her- she was going through opiate withdrawal. The regular doses of Percocet had been enough to build up a tolerance.
There was nothing to do but to wait while the drug-induced changes in her nervous system gradually reversed themselves. All told, it was about a week from when she started experiencing symptoms to when she was fully recovered.
I'd truly hate to see what withdrawal is like for a heavy heroin user.
It's true that this was nothing like alcohol withdrawal, which I understand can actually be life-threatening.
However, "flu-like symptoms for a weekend" seems like much too rosy a description.
Boris Karloff died for your sins. |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 01/17/2002 : 05:17:58 [Permalink]
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If these are usual withdrawal symptoms, then it seems that the doctors would have been extremely irresponsible not to have warned her about that and not to have helped her through it.
I think we've established that quitting isn't easy, but I think you've shown that it can be done without 12 Steps. Would it be wrong to say that if she had known what to expect and had the help of a doctor that she might have had an easier time?
quote:
This is just an unscientific anecdote, but I'm gonna tell it anyway.
"Not one human life should be expended in this reckless violence called a war against terrorism." - Howard Zinn |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 01/17/2002 : 06:16:38 [Permalink]
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http://www.drugwarfacts.org/heroin.htm
"Withdrawal, which in regular abusers may occur as early as a few hours after the
last administration, produces drug craving, restlessness, muscle and bone pain,
insomnia, diarrhea and vomiting, cold flashes with goose bumps ('cold turkey'),
kicking movements ('kicking the habit'), and other symptoms. Major withdrawal
symptoms peak between 48 and 72 hours after the last dose and subside after about
a week.
Sudden withdrawal by heavily dependent users who are in poor health is
occasionally fatal, although heroin withdrawal is considered much less dangerous
than alcohol or barbiturate withdrawal."
Source: National Institute on Drug Abuse, Infofax on Heroin No. 13548
(Rockville, MD: US
Department of Health and Human Services), from the web at
http://www.nida.nih.gov/Infofax/heroin.html last accessed November 16, 2000.
"Not one human life should be expended in this reckless violence called a war against terrorism." - Howard Zinn |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 01/17/2002 : 13:08:31 [Permalink]
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http://www.peele.net/lib/sociald.html
for a piece introducing me to the idea that addiction is a social disease, which is what I assume Kil meant.
"Not one human life should be expended in this reckless violence called a war against terrorism." - Howard Zinn |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2002 : 12:49:00 [Permalink]
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This from the Healthfraud list - archives at http://www.ssr.com
'I was the lead author of a chapter in James Christopher's book SOS SOBRIETY
(Prometheus Books 1992) in which I wrote:
"Yet, it the more than fifty years of accumulated literature on Alcoholics Anonymous and other 12-step groups, there is a notable absence of scientific evidence from well-designed outcome evaluation studies.
"Twelve-step groups have been popularly acclaimed for promoting recovery
primarily on the basis of large numbers of anecdotal reports of personal success stories. Although membership survey data published in the newsletter A.A. GRAPEVINE quantify success stories, the data are still only anecdotal because they don't describe (1) how well survey respondents represent any
definable population of AA members; (2) what percentage of those individuals who initially try 12-step meetings winds up worse off then they were before attending meetings; and (3) what percentage winds up improving. Moreover,
the experiences of AA members do not represent the experiences of addicts who learn to maintain sobriety without joining any type of fellowship (Stall and Biernacki, 1986).
"...Any claims made that the 12-step method is the "best," the "only," or a "highly efficiacious" path to addiction recovery are not supported by data. Yet it is not unusual for treatment professionals in the U.S. to offer the 12-step model to clients as the ONLY recommended path to recovery."
One more comment. As part of this thread someone questioned whether it was appropriate to attend AA meetings simply as an observer. The answer is that it is not appropriate to attend simply as an observer designated "closed" AA meetings, but it is appropriate for anyone to attend designated "open" or
"open discussion" AA meetings. As part of courses I taught on alcohol, drug abuse, and addictions over a 12-year period, I gave an assignment for students to attend "open" or "open discussion" 12-step meetings and then
answer a series of questions. (I encouraged students to attend designated smoke-free meetings because the amount of smoke and carbon monoxide at many meetings that allow smoking is enough to produce acute health problems in many people.)'
Bill London
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From another post, assuming this is the same gentleman:
William M. London, Ed.D., M.P.H.
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"Not one human life should be expended in this reckless violence called a war against terrorism." - Howard Zinn
Edited by - gorgo on 01/25/2002 12:49:42
Edited by - gorgo on 01/25/2002 12:50:47 |
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