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Original_Intent
SFN Regular
USA
609 Posts |
 Posted - 11/30/2006 : 11:52:42
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Idiots, friggin' liars and idiots
quote:
Democrats Reject Key 9/11 Panel Suggestion
Neither Party Has an Appetite for Overhauling Congressional Oversight of Intelligence
By Jonathan Weisman
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, November 30, 2006; A07
It was a solemn pledge, repeated by Democratic leaders and candidates over and over: If elected to the majority in Congress, Democrats would implement all of the recommendations of the bipartisan commission that examined the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001.
But with control of Congress now secured, Democratic leaders have decided for now against implementing the one measure that would affect them most directly: a wholesale reorganization of Congress to improve oversight and funding of the nation's intelligence agencies. Instead, Democratic leaders may create a panel to look at the issue and produce recommendations, according to congressional aides and lawmakers.
As I am an equal oppurtunity griper....... This should have been done long before 9/11. It really showed it needed to be done after 9/11. Should have been done by now.
Peace
Joe
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Neurosis
SFN Regular
USA
675 Posts |
Posted - 11/30/2006 : 15:11:38 [Permalink]
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| Who saw that comming.. like everybody! Typical politics, promise something hard till its your job then take the easy way out. |
Facts! Pssh, you can prove anything even remotely true with facts.
- Homer Simpson
[God] is an infinite nothing from nowhere with less power over our universe than the secretary of agriculture.
- Prof. Frink
Lisa: Yes, but wouldn't you rather know the truth than to delude yourself for happiness?
Marge: Well... um.... [goes outside to jump on tampoline with Homer.] |
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Original_Intent
SFN Regular
USA
609 Posts |
Posted - 12/01/2006 : 03:52:09 [Permalink]
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Silly me didn't see that one coming. Saw a lot of little things, and some big ones.... but not that one.
Peace
Joe |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 12/01/2006 : 14:05:32 [Permalink]
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http://fpc.state.gov/documents/organization/35800.pdf
Congress and Oversight Issues
Key 9/11 Commission Recommendations
! Congressional oversight for intelligence and counterterrorism is now
dysfunctional. Congress should address this problem. We have
considered various alternatives: A joint committee on the old model
of the Joint Committee on Atomic Energy is one. A single
committee in each house of Congress, combining authorizing and
appropriating authorities, is another.
! Congress should create a single, principal point of oversight and
review for homeland security. Congressional leaders are best able to
judge what committee should have jurisdiction over this department
and its duties. But we believe that Congress does have the obligation
to choose one in the House and one in the Senate, and that this
committee should be a permanent standing committee with a
nonpartisan staff.
! Since a catastrophic attack could occur with little or no notice, we
should minimize as much as possible the disruption of national
security policymaking during the change of administrations by
accelerating the process for national security appointments. We think
the process could be improved significantly so transitions can work
more effectively and allow new officials to assume their new
responsibilities as quickly as possible. The Department of Defense
and its oversight committees should regularly assess the adequacy of
Northern Command's strategies and planning to defend the United
States against military threats to the homeland. The Department of
Homeland Security and its oversight committees should regularly
assess the types of threats the country faces to determine (a) the
adequacy of the government's plans— and the progress against those
plans— to protect America's critical infrastructure and (b) the
readiness of the government to respond to the threats that the United
States might face.
OK, my brain is missing the details here. What exactly is the thing the Dems aren't planning to do? Is it that they aren't going to do it, aren't going to do it in the first 100 whatevers, or are going to study it first? Do they have a choice to make as implied in the recommendation above?
The Dems haven't even taken the reigns yet. The Republicans are already starting their disinformation campaign attacking and blaming falsely everything they can. Fox News had a sign up during a recent program that said, "Democrats are going to implement a HUGE tax increase." Frankly, I'm sick of it.
So tell me what the actual issue is here and just who's claiming what. Then I'll see what actually happens before going off on some, 'I told you so', 'they are going to tax the s#$@ out of you', they are just as corrupt' and on and on and on.
The core Republicans (not the majority of the membership) are lying sacks of crap and could care less about the country or working together or anything except smear the Democrats and get back into power. So forgive me if I wait and see before fretting over more smear tactics.
Oh, and by the way, the recommendation for "non-partisan" staff on the committees is for all intents and purposes nearly an impossible goal. Were an intelligent CongressPerson to be realistic about this recommendation, a review would be in order. It isn't as straightforward if you consider it ideal but impossible as written.
And I am going to criticize the Dems when it is called for. But this is a bit of overkill at this point in time.
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| Edited by - beskeptigal on 12/01/2006 14:10:27 |
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Original_Intent
SFN Regular
USA
609 Posts |
Posted - 12/01/2006 : 14:18:26 [Permalink]
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Guess we'll see....... My guess is you are eithr going to turn a blnd eye, or be late onto the bandwagon.
Peace
Joe |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 12/02/2006 : 00:56:29 [Permalink]
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You made no attempt to answer my questions, OI. Explain your criticisms in plain language. Not, "Gee the Dems are renigging" when it isn't clear from the claims by the reporter exactly what matters here and exactly what are the Dems not doing, given they haven't even been sworn in yet.
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Orwellingly Yurz
SFN Regular
USA
529 Posts |
Posted - 12/02/2006 : 04:35:26 [Permalink]
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YO: This thread is titled "business as usal." The following link will take you to a completely different story which would more appropriately use the title: Business As Usual. The sub-head on this one, though, should read:
Our Tax Dollars At Work in, where else(?), northern Virginia.
http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/us/AP-Traveler-Screening.html?_r=1&oref=slogin
OY sez: Do Langley have a familiar ring to it? OY! |
"The modern conservative...is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy. That is the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness."
--John Kenneth Galbraith
If dogs run free
Then what must be,
Must be...
And that is all
--Bob Dylan
The neo-cons have gotten welfare for themselves down to a fine art.
--me
"The meek shall inherit the earth, but not the mineral rights."
--J. Paul Getty
"The great thing about Art isn't what it give us, but what we become through it."
--Oscar Wilde
"We have Art in order not to die of life."
--Albert Camus
"I cling like a miser to the freedom I lose when surrounded by an abundance of things."
--Albert Camus
"Experience is the name so many people give to their mistakes."
--Oscar Wilde |
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Original_Intent
SFN Regular
USA
609 Posts |
Posted - 12/02/2006 : 09:44:53 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal
You made no attempt to answer my questions, OI. Explain your criticisms in plain language. Not, "Gee the Dems are renigging" when it isn't clear from the claims by the reporter exactly what matters here and exactly what are the Dems not doing, given they haven't even been sworn in yet.
You should funnel some of that anger torwards the incoming Dems to make sure that they know that the reccomendations need to have priority and be addressed in the first 100 hours, even if it is not taken care of in the first 1,000, and nothing else is done until that is done.
The Republicans passed it off, now he Dems are going to. They want all the feel good stuff for there constituents. They want to say "hey, look what we accomplished in our first 100 hours." It's utter horsecrap. It dosen't matter if my student loans are tax deductible if they someone blows up a bomb.
It dosen't matter if someone is data-mining me if they blow up my home.
It dosen't matter if someone listens on my converstaions if they poison my family.
First and last, things have to be more secure. The other stuff can be handled in time.
Who said anything about taxes?
quote:
Oh, and by the way, the recommendation for "non-partisan" staff on the committees is for all intents and purposes nearly an impossible goal. Were an intelligent CongressPerson to be realistic about this recommendation, a review would be in order. It isn't as straightforward if you consider it ideal but impossible as written.
So....It can't be fixed, so why bother.
The brachial artery is severed, and they want to put a band-aid on it, fluff the pillow, and warm the blanket.
Business as usuall.
Peace
Joe
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 12/02/2006 : 23:07:06 [Permalink]
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I'm not angry, OI. I'm skeptical of the Republican wolf calls cries that are already saturating the news media.
It matters to me if the data mining and secret abductions continue unchecked. Innocent people have already had their lives ruined. You may feel secure that you will not be accidentally targeted. I, on the other hand, care if I am, OR if any other innocent person is falsely imprisoned, denied access to air travel, or whatever other Big Brother action is taken against them.
What amazes me is the same NRA and other Libertarian extremists don't seem to care about these outrageous government abuses in the name of fighting terrorism, but scream their tiny little heads off if Uncle Sam dares to enact a gun safety lock law.
Just how many houses have been blown up in the USA? And besides the KGB or what it has evolved into dipping sushi in polonium-210 before it reached some Putin political enemies, who has been poisoning US citizens? It isn't that I don't think terrorists can or will strike inside the US in the future, but the risk is hardly so likely and so extensive that I'm happy to have the likes of the Bush administration declaring martial law to protect me.
Where is your sense of scale here? Other than the poor soldiers needlessly put in harm's way in Iraq, just who is at war with us and where are those bombs falling? Bush claims the Iraq civil war where bombs are blowing people up by the thousands is only in essence, "criminal acts". Yet Bin Laden's single incident a few years ago Bush claims amounts to war. If it's a war, have you thought about where you plan to shelter when the bombs start falling?
Get some perspective, OI. You are in need of it.
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Chippewa
SFN Regular
USA
1496 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2006 : 02:44:18 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Original_Intent
friggin' liars and idiots...As I am an equal oppurtunity griper...
Equal? Not really. On an earlier thread you blasted Bill Clinton. (One of the better recent presidents, and a supremely better one if compared solely with George W. Bush.)
As for the newly elected Democrats and their plans – (Dems who haven't even taken office yet;) you're awfully quick to condemn them all. Oh sure there will be bad Democrats because there will always be bad people, but your initial post condemns all the Democrats, yet you remain strangely silent (for an "equal opportunity" guy,) about the right-wingers, and when you do criticize the Right, you seem to go along with the old right-wing college campus campaign idea designed to disillusion potential young voters by implying that there is no difference between the Democrats and Republicans.
The Right is much worse and responsible for a lot of crap you're silent about. And yet the Dems you blasted aren't even in power now. You have nothing much to add about Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld when he was around, and a lot of neocons who are still around. In the end, all I see here is more shilling for Bush.
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Diversity, independence, innovation and imagination are progressive concepts ultimately alien to the conservative mind.
"TAX AND SPEND" IS GOOD! (TAX: Wealthy corporations who won't go poor even after taxes. SPEND: On public works programs, education, the environment, improvements.) |
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Original_Intent
SFN Regular
USA
609 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2006 : 09:06:54 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal
I'm not angry, OI. I'm skeptical of the Republican wolf calls cries that are already saturating the news media.
It matters to me if the data mining and secret abductions continue unchecked. Innocent people have already had their lives ruined. You may feel secure that you will not be accidentally targeted. I, on the other hand, care if I am, OR if any other innocent person is falsely imprisoned, denied access to air travel, or whatever other Big Brother action is taken against them.
What amazes me is the same NRA and other Libertarian extremists don't seem to care about these outrageous government abuses in the name of fighting terrorism, but scream their tiny little heads off if Uncle Sam dares to enact a gun safety lock law.
Just how many houses have been blown up in the USA? And besides the KGB or what it has evolved into dipping sushi in polonium-210 before it reached some Putin political enemies, who has been poisoning US citizens? It isn't that I don't think terrorists can or will strike inside the US in the future, but the risk is hardly so likely and so extensive that I'm happy to have the likes of the Bush administration declaring martial law to protect me.
Where is your sense of scale here? Other than the poor soldiers needlessly put in harm's way in Iraq, just who is at war with us and where are those bombs falling? Bush claims the Iraq civil war where bombs are blowing people up by the thousands is only in essence, "criminal acts". Yet Bin Laden's single incident a few years ago Bush claims amounts to war. If it's a war, have you thought about where you plan to shelter when the bombs start falling?
Get some perspective, OI. You are in need of it.
Perspective....LOL....
Who said anything about the NRA? I know you like to get your OT digs in, but come on......
Sense of scale..... Yours seems to be pretty small minded. My scale is teritorry, not individual.
So you are ok with them worrting about people having tax breaks for collegge tuition ahead of them worrying about the securiy of the citizens?
You are more concerned with the few people who cannot fly over the security of the nation. Over the data-mining and eavsdropping then the security?
These things need to be fixed, but they need to be fixed by a system that is not broken, else the results are broken. You can worry all you want about the contents of the package, but it matters not if the package isn't delivered.
Peace
Joe |
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Original_Intent
SFN Regular
USA
609 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2006 : 09:27:55 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Chippewa
quote:
Originally posted by Original_Intent
friggin' liars and idiots...As I am an equal oppurtunity griper...
Equal? Not really. On an earlier thread you blasted Bill Clinton. (One of the better recent presidents, and a supremely better one if compared solely with George W. Bush.)
As for the newly elected Democrats and their plans – (Dems who haven't even taken office yet;) you're awfully quick to condemn them all. Oh sure there will be bad Democrats because there will always be bad people, but your initial post condemns all the Democrats, yet you remain strangely silent (for an "equal opportunity" guy,) about the right-wingers, and when you do criticize the Right, you seem to go along with the old right-wing college campus campaign idea designed to disillusion potential young voters by implying that there is no difference between the Democrats and Republicans.
The Right is much worse and responsible for a lot of crap you're silent about. And yet the Dems you blasted aren't even in power now. You have nothing much to add about Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld when he was around, and a lot of neocons who are still around. In the end, all I see here is more shilling for Bush.
You are right, sort of.
Clinton sucked, Bush sucks.... You know the drill. You bought Clinton into it, not me. Better dosen't equal good, which is what I want. I would say the first statement you made is false.
The second set of statements, you are about half and half:
quote:
As for the newly elected Democrats and their plans – (Dems who haven't even taken office yet;) you're awfully quick to condemn them all. Oh sure there will be bad Democrats because there will always be bad people, but your initial post condemns all the Democrats, yet you remain strangely silent (for an "equal opportunity" guy,) about the right-wingers, and when you do criticize the Right, you seem to go along with the old right-wing college campus campaign idea designed to disillusion potential young voters by implying that there is no difference between the Democrats and Republicans.
I was pretty quick to throw a blanket over them, wasn't I. Although I am not impressed with Pelosi backing Murtha, I really shouldn't have thrown the tarp over the rest of them.
As far as ripping on the right, you all do such a good job here that my thoughts are usually already expressed, other then the fact there is lttle difirence between them.
You get a little off on the disillussion though..... The only people I want to discourage from voting are the ones special laws need to be made for. I am not up on all the election laws, but here in KY, to my surprise, as I did not know this:
We are being critisized for an old system where we place the person belonging to the presidents party over the people of the other parties. This apparently is unfair as there is a 2 to 8 percent "bounce" for the people at the top of the ticket. The ones that are bouncing it I would discourage from voting.
I would also discourage the ones that say "My grandfather was a Republican, My father was a Republican, I am a Republican." or.... " I always vote strait ticket."
These folks need to be discouraged from voting because of the lack of any knowledge of the people they are voting for, and I would activley discourage them from voting f I thought it would do any good.
quote:
The Right is much worse and responsible for a lot of crap you're silent about. And yet the Dems you blasted aren't even in power now. You have nothing much to add about Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld when he was around, and a lot of neocons who are still around. In the end, all I see here is more shilling for Bush.
Will the Left fix it? I doubt it, but it's wait-and-see.
Peace
Joe
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2006 : 03:26:07 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Original_Intent
Perspective....LOL....
Who said anything about the NRA? I know you like to get your OT digs in, but come on......
Sense of scale..... Yours seems to be pretty small minded. My scale is teritorry, not individual.
So you are ok with them worrting about people having tax breaks for collegge tuition ahead of them worrying about the securiy of the citizens?
You are more concerned with the few people who cannot fly over the security of the nation. Over the data-mining and eavsdropping then the security?
These things need to be fixed, but they need to be fixed by a system that is not broken, else the results are broken. You can worry all you want about the contents of the package, but it matters not if the package isn't delivered.
Peace
Joe
Your statements here are inaccurate. I have heard more from the Dems about seaport and airport security than from the Republicans. So we'll see. But no Party could do a worse job than Bush's crony party on security.
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Original_Intent
SFN Regular
USA
609 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2006 : 06:58:50 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal
quote:
Originally posted by Original_Intent
Perspective....LOL....
Who said anything about the NRA? I know you like to get your OT digs in, but come on......
Sense of scale..... Yours seems to be pretty small minded. My scale is teritorry, not individual.
So you are ok with them worrting about people having tax breaks for collegge tuition ahead of them worrying about the securiy of the citizens?
You are more concerned with the few people who cannot fly over the security of the nation. Over the data-mining and eavsdropping then the security?
These things need to be fixed, but they need to be fixed by a system that is not broken, else the results are broken. You can worry all you want about the contents of the package, but it matters not if the package isn't delivered.
Peace
Joe
Your statements here are inaccurate. I have heard more from the Dems about seaport and airport security than from the Republicans. So we'll see. But no Party could do a worse job than Bush's crony party on security.
I don't see how my statements are inaccurate. I talk about the security of a nation as a whole, and you want to talk about taxes, the NRA, data-mining, some people who cannot fly, and Plutonium-210.
The point was over fixing the problem in the house... Stay with me. Now you want to stick airport security and seaport security into it, well you are getting closer at least.
None of this really matters though if it is going to be business as usual..... Like Clive Barker writing comedy or the Marx Brothers doing drama.
Peace
Joe |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2006 : 08:00:26 [Permalink]
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Me, I'm just a'waitin' and a'seein', as any contentious malcontent should do. But my pistols are loaded and my knives sharp.
Come to think of it, the Republicans are too easy. I mean, that bunch would fuck up a free lunch. And they are so obvious about it. So obvious in fact, that it is a sad commentary on the rest of us that so many of them are still in any sort of positions of authority. I'd like a little challenge. I'm hoping that the Democrats, if not entirely honest, are at least more subtle in their knavery.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2006 : 09:12:03 [Permalink]
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I'm hoping for miracles, but as a skeptic, I don't expect any. Bottom line for me is that I would rather see the government in the hands of our professional politicians (even though the thought makes me cringe) than the current crew of total incompetents that is the hallmark of the Bush administration and those, ummmm, politicians and advisers who signed on to the agenda to protect their standing in the house of power.
I think if you were to look back on the threads here, you will see that we called almost every stinking mistake that Bush and company has made, often before they made it. If any prediction prize could be awarded, well… It would be a booby prize…
It isn't saying much but I don't see how the democrats could do worse than the worst we have ever had…
I'm with Filthy on this.
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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