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Donnie B.
Skeptic Friend
417 Posts |
 Posted - 01/24/2002 : 16:51:01 [Permalink]
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I knew you would... 
-- Donnie B.
Brian: "No, no! You have to think for yourselves!" Crowd: "Yes! We have to think for ourselves!" |
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Megan
Skeptic Friend
USA
163 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2002 : 21:47:32 [Permalink]
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Ok as most of you know I take dance lessons three times a week(ballet, jazz, and modern) and my teacher is a pretty religious person and so are her 3 great kids. And its never bothered me before that she and her kids and her husband include a little bit of *God* into dance. But tonight when the class started to get talking( ) and somehow the we got to talking about *God* (I wasn't really paying much attention), well it like started to bother me... like REALLY bother me. What is that supposed to mean?? And I usually do pretty good at containing myself when other people around me talk about their religious beliefs but how come all of the sudden it like gets under my skin so fast??
~Megan~
I only do what the voices in my head tell me to do. |
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2002 : 22:20:25 [Permalink]
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Perhaps because religion should be a personal thing. When a group starts in on it someone that's not as into the whole God scene can feel alienated.
Talking about religion is right up there with political discussions. Someone is usually bound to be offended somehow.
@tomic
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law! |
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Slater
SFN Regular
USA
1668 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2002 : 11:34:11 [Permalink]
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quote:
And I usually do pretty good at containing myself when other people around me talk about their religious beliefs but how come all of the sudden it like gets under my skin so fast??
It's strange that non-believers are supposed to contain themselves. I have found myself, these past few years, saying in like situations. "Nah, I don't believe that sort of stuff. I'm pretty skeptical." I'm pleasant and smile when I say it. (And my brogue gets thicker) What I have found is that there are a lot more unbelievers than you would have thought. Around here the number is one in about every five or six people.
I said my disclaimer while visiting an office last year where a Polish-American woman was waxing on about Islam (she was in full costume) only to find that everyone in the group was an Atheist except her. They slapped me on the back for speaking up.
When you announce yourself with a smile and a laugh the religious retreat from the field. Their personal beliefs go back to being private.
Well they do with me. They crash their pick-ups into Dr Shari.
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The brain that was stolen from my laboratory was a criminal brain. Only evil will come from it. |
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Tokyodreamer
SFN Regular
USA
1447 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2002 : 11:43:10 [Permalink]
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quote:
I have found myself, these past few years, saying in like situations. "Nah, I don't believe that sort of stuff. I'm pretty skeptical." I'm pleasant and smile when I say it. (And my brogue gets thicker)... When you announce yourself with a smile and a laugh the religious retreat from the field. Their personal beliefs go back to being private.
Well they do with me. They crash their pick-ups into Dr Shari.
Can anyone learn this type of self-confidence, or is it only a product of age and wisdom, Master Slater? ()
(I'm hoping you have a pebble you want me to try and grab from your hand or something)
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Sum Ergo Cogito
Edited by - tokyodreamer on 01/25/2002 11:44:16 |
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Slater
SFN Regular
USA
1668 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2002 : 13:51:52 [Permalink]
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quote:
(I'm hoping you have a pebble you want me to try and grab from your hand or something)
It is rare, Grasshopper, that Xians will say anything in return. Now and again you'll get raised eyebrows and a "You don't believe?!"
I always reply with "No," chuckle, "no, of course not."
"Well I do."
"Oh?" raise only one eyebrow. "That's...umm...that's nice."
And it will stop right there, guaranteed.
Next time I'll tell you how to walk over rice paper without leaving a mark.
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The brain that was stolen from my laboratory was a criminal brain. Only evil will come from it. |
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Garrette
SFN Regular
USA
562 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2002 : 14:06:17 [Permalink]
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I suppose I need practice. I've been bodily threatened before I've convinced them to calm down. I need to work on my 'imposing figure' stance.
My kids still love me. |
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James
SFN Regular
USA
754 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2002 : 18:49:31 [Permalink]
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quote:
It's strange that non-believers are supposed to contain themselves. I have found myself, these past few years, saying in like situations. "Nah, I don't believe that sort of stuff. I'm pretty skeptical." I'm pleasant and smile when I say it. (And my brogue gets thicker) What I have found is that there are a lot more unbelievers than you would have thought. Around here the number is one in about every five or six people.
Master Slater, how would you approach family members about this sensitive subject? I know it's one thing for strangers, but I have a feeling that telling my family is gonna be very hard.
"Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your common sense." -Buddha |
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Donnie B.
Skeptic Friend
417 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2002 : 19:49:08 [Permalink]
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If I may, James,
I went through this some years back. It was particularly uncomfortable for me, because my father is a minister (though not a looney fundamentalist or anything).
I have to admit, I didn't initiate the conversation; I was happy with a "don't ask, don't tell" situation. But they made a point of bringing it up. I was squirming, but I answered their questions as honestly as possible -- at that point, I figured that if they didn't like what they heard, well, they brought it on themselves.
Rather to my surprise, it was my mother who took it hardest (there were tears). My father accepted that I was sincere in my disbelief. They have never bugged me about it, although they make no secret of their disappointment.
This happened well after I was living away from home.
Of course, because of my father's vocation, I still hear a lot about the activities in his church (he's retired, but still active in the congregation). I still go to services with them at Christmas, if I'm visiting them. I sing the carols, more out of nostalgia than anything else, and inwardly cringing at the words; but I don't participate in the liturgy or take communion.
I don't know if this is any help to you, but it's how things played out for me.
-- Donnie B.
Brian: "No, no! You have to think for yourselves!" Crowd: "Yes! We have to think for ourselves!" |
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Slater
SFN Regular
USA
1668 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2002 : 20:00:48 [Permalink]
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quote:
how would you approach family members about this sensitive subject?
What? How do you tell your Mum?
Forget it, all bets are off when it comes to family. She will forgive you...eventually... even if Jesus wont.
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The brain that was stolen from my laboratory was a criminal brain. Only evil will come from it. |
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Tokyodreamer
SFN Regular
USA
1447 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2002 : 21:49:46 [Permalink]
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quote:
Rather to my surprise, it was my mother who took it hardest (there were tears).
Gah! I just know that this is what will happen when/if my mom ever finds out. Not looking forward to it... 
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Sum Ergo Cogito |
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Megan
Skeptic Friend
USA
163 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2002 : 23:01:53 [Permalink]
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I know that when I told my family they had a, "What's with you?" sort of response. Then when I explained how I felt and that I didn't think I believed in God, they then understood and were comfortable with it. Now, it's something that's just apart of me and they accept it (thank God).
~Megan~
I only do what the voices in my head tell me to do. |
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Tim
SFN Regular
USA
775 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2002 : 06:27:44 [Permalink]
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Gawd, maybe we should organize encounter groups, and support groups. Maybe, we could write all our experiences down about what it was like to 'come out' as agnostics and atheists.
I'm being sarcastic, of course, but it is a sad statement of our society that we are reticent to express our true feelings about those fantasies of omnipotence. Does a Christian have more right to their beliefs and feelings than anyone else?
Perhaps, it's time for a change? Afterall, I have yet to find an agnostic book store. Has anyone ever joined a charitable atheists' organization? How about an agnostic political action committee? Are there any Young Men's Atheist Associations in your state? Are agnostic family values held in high regard in your community? Has a politician in your area ever pronounced boldly from the podium that she/he is a non-beleiver and 'damned proud' of it?
And, back to the subject of this thread...Yes, God has all those things, and more, and none. Most Christians are Trinitarians. Sooooo, God are, well, God. They're corporeal, and not. Or rather ethereal, and not. They're God. They're, also, a man, and a god named Jesus Christ, who was born to flesh, of flesh, and not of flesh. And, They are the Holy Ghost, which, I guess, that means They can walk through walls ,too! Just like Casper. If God said that man was created in 'our image', then God are all those things.
Can anyone explain the Trinity any better?
"The Constitution ..., is a marvelous document for self-government by Christian people. But the minute you turn the document into the hands of non-Christian and atheistic people they can use it to destroy the very foundation of our society." P. Robertson |
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James
SFN Regular
USA
754 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2002 : 22:38:31 [Permalink]
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quote:
And, back to the subject of this thread...Yes, God has all those things, and more, and none. Most Christians are Trinitarians. Sooooo, God are, well, God. They're corporeal, and not. Or rather ethereal, and not. They're God. They're, also, a man, and a god named Jesus Christ, who was born to flesh, of flesh, and not of flesh. And, They are the Holy Ghost, which, I guess, that means They can walk through walls ,too! Just like Casper. If God said that man was created in 'our image', then God are all those things.
Can anyone explain the Trinity any better?
I couldn't even follow your summation of it.  
quote:
If I may, James,
I went through this some years back. It was particularly uncomfortable for me, because my father is a minister (though not a looney fundamentalist or anything).
I have to admit, I didn't initiate the conversation; I was happy with a "don't ask, don't tell" situation. But they made a point of bringing it up. I was squirming, but I answered their questions as honestly as possible -- at that point, I figured that if they didn't like what they heard, well, they brought it on themselves.
Rather to my surprise, it was my mother who took it hardest (there were tears). My father accepted that I was sincere in my disbelief. They have never bugged me about it, although they make no secret of their disappointment.
This happened well after I was living away from home.
Of course, because of my father's vocation, I still hear a lot about the activities in his church (he's retired, but still active in the congregation). I still go to services with them at Christmas, if I'm visiting them. I sing the carols, more out of nostalgia than anything else, and inwardly cringing at the words; but I don't participate in the liturgy or take communion.
I don't know if this is any help to you, but it's how things played out for me.
-- Donnie B.
quote:
quote:
how would you approach family members about this sensitive subject?
What? How do you tell your Mum?
Forget it, all bets are off when it comes to family. She will forgive you...eventually... even if Jesus wont.
quote:
I know that when I told my family they had a, "What's with you?" sort of response. Then when I explained how I felt and that I didn't think I believed in God, they then understood and were comfortable with it. Now, it's something that's just apart of me and they accept it (thank God).
~Megan~
Thanks, everyone. But it isn't my parents that I'm worried about. It's my aunt and uncle. We go out to their farm for the holidays every year, and I like doing that. I normally don't see nor hear from them other than then.
I guess it is all a matter of timing, I guess.   
"Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your common sense." -Buddha |
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Slater
SFN Regular
USA
1668 Posts |
Posted - 01/27/2002 : 16:09:25 [Permalink]
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Well James, if you are ashamed of being a non-believer then you better get started believing.
But if you're not, then just be who you are. Your Uncle & Aunt will understand or they won't. That part is strictly up to them and there's nothing you can do about it.
I have a nephew who is a priest. About ten years ago he was talking to me about Atheism. He shook his head and told me it was sad, so sad, that I couldn't see the truth and the light. I laughed and said that that was some coincidence. I was about to say the same thing to him.
A crease appeared between his eyebrows. I leaned forward and said-- '"But ya know, Joe, between the two of us guys you're the only one whose wearing a dress."
And I haven't heard from him again in a decade.
His loss.
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The brain that was stolen from my laboratory was a criminal brain. Only evil will come from it.
Edited by - slater on 01/27/2002 16:14:57 |
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