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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
 Posted - 12/12/2006 : 19:44:31 [Permalink]
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quote:
quote:
Are you saying that Murtha will be majority leader? I seem to recall that someone else was voted in.
They both were ethically challenged.
http://www.skepticfriends.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=7112
But the other guy, Steny Hoyer, also has charges of being corrupt and unethical.
From Will Bunch's Numbers Rackete: http://www.philly.com/mld/dailynews/news/local/16009528.htm
And from this liberal columnist: http://www.niagarafallsreporter.com/gallagher289.html
And a profile for both Murtha and Hoyer is here: http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/001981.php
quote:
And are you further stating that he is worse than DeLay, Cunningham, et al? Murtha's story is in the above link (pdf), and apparently he has not been charged with anything beyond playing a little close to the edge. Logic tells me that if there was the least provable impropriety, the Republicans would have run him through the shredder. They have not done so. Possibly, they're too involved with covering their own tracks to worry about something that would get him little more than a reprimand, at worst.
I am saying hold them both to the same standard. Don't give the dems a free pass simply for not being pubs.
quote:
I will quite happily go after the Democrats, as soon as they give me a reason, as I'm sure they will, sooner or later. In fact, I already have; accusing them of pussyism and cowardice throughout the last decade. But until the new bunch deserves it, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt.
It's just a matter of time, if you're not already a little skeptical of their actions. History is on my side here.
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"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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| Edited by - Bill scott on 12/12/2006 19:49:09 |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 12/12/2006 : 21:21:02 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Original_Intent
LOL
I wonder if they gave the test to everyone, and how many of them would flunk (current administration and incoming).
Peace
Joe
All of them according to Laura Flanders who was talking about this on Air America this AM. Apparently they have been quizzed.
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| Edited by - beskeptigal on 12/12/2006 21:29:00 |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 12/12/2006 : 21:26:58 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Bill scott
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Who cares? I would expect him to know the Prez, but not the FM. Besides, Mexico is not activily trying to blow up the US with nukes, either
....
Did you miss the interview, Bill? Bush didn't know who led India or Pakistan either and those two countries have had near misses declaring war over Kashmir and they both have nuclear weapons. You can say what you want about whether it matters or not but there is no doubt Bush knew almost nothing about world politics when he ran for office and his actions since reflect on that ignorance big time! |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 12/13/2006 : 03:50:31 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal
quote:
Originally posted by Bill scott
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Who cares? I would expect him to know the Prez, but not the FM. Besides, Mexico is not activily trying to blow up the US with nukes, either
....
Did you miss the interview, Bill? Bush didn't know who led India or Pakistan either and those two countries have had near misses declaring war over Kashmir and they both have nuclear weapons. You can say what you want about whether it matters or not but there is no doubt Bush knew almost nothing about world politics when he ran for office and his actions since reflect on that ignorance big time!
Indeed. In fact, I'm thinking that, after 6 years experience in office, he has managed to know even less.
As for the incoming Congress, we'll see. I've no doubt that there will be scumbaggery on both sides, found out and otherwise. Such it has always been in all government.
Heh, I'm reminded that Jefferson, A Louisiana Democrat and he of the mysterious $90,000 in the Fridgidair, was reelected -- much to my astonishment and dismay. I wonder how that's going to turn out. At this point, I don't think he'll serve his full term.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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| Edited by - filthy on 12/13/2006 03:58:52 |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 12/13/2006 : 04:58:22 [Permalink]
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FYI:quote:
Reyes is not the only congressman on the intelligence committee who has trouble with these basic questions about Islam.
Republicans Jo Ann Davis, R-Va., and Terry Everett, R-Ala., also failed this test, and Stein wrote about them in a previous column.
Stein has made a cottage industry of asking these questions of lawmakers from both parties and FBI counterterrorism officials.
He has received the same blank stares that Jay Leno gets when he stops people on the street and asks them to name the first American president.
That's a comedy show, though. This is Congress.
Stein cedes that not all Congress members have failed the quiz.
"Some of the people I've asked these questions have known them," Stein said. "Zoe Lofgren, the ranking Democrat on the intelligence subcommittee of the House Homeland Security Committee, knew it very well. [Rep.] Jane Harman, too. She kind of rolled her eyes and said, 'Where do you want me to start? Fourteen-hundred years ago there was a split in Islam.' ... And I said, 'OK, you know."
It should be noted that incoming House Speaker Nancy Pelosi bumped Harman, D-Calif., out of her position as the ranking Democrat on the Intelligence Committee in favor of Reyes.
I am not pleased to hear Harmon was more qualified and passed over. I will be writing Pelosi about that and hope more will do the same. One letter isn't noticed but this kind of publicity is and letters help. |
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moakley
SFN Regular
USA
1888 Posts |
Posted - 12/13/2006 : 05:48:00 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Bill scott
quote:
Originally posted by moakley
quote:
Originally posted by Bill scott
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Rep. Silvestre Reyes of Texas, who incoming House Speaker Nancy Pelosi has tapped to head the Intelligence Committee when the Democrats take over in January, failed a quiz of basic questions about al Qaeda and Hezbollah, two of the key terrorist organizations the intelligence community has focused on since the September 11, 2001 attacks.
I suspect that he knows the basics now or that he will know by the time he heads the committee. Being an effective leader means relying on a staff of experts to fill in the gaps in his knowledge. Initially the gaps will be larger and through time and new situations the gaps will be larger. I suspect that through time the staff of experts will help fill those gaps. To be effective he must be willing to consider all summary information provided without regard to political ideology. What a refreshing change that would be.
With nukes involved, or soon to be involved, I would still perfer a IC leader who knows what teams are playing the game.
I'd prefer that the IC leader be bright, honest, and humble enough to recognize that he doesn't have all the answers. To rely upon the experts for information, to summarize and formalize plans, and to adapt when changing course is necessary. I do not want some fear mongering ideologue manipulating intelligence for some far fetched political agenda, who devoutly stays the course. |
Life is good
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous |
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 12/13/2006 : 06:30:25 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal
quote:
Originally posted by Bill scott
...
Who cares? I would expect him to know the Prez, but not the FM. Besides, Mexico is not activily trying to blow up the US with nukes, either
....
Did you miss the interview, Bill? Bush didn't know who led India or Pakistan either and those two countries have had near misses declaring war over Kashmir and they both have nuclear weapons. You can say what you want about whether it matters or not but there is no doubt Bush knew almost nothing about world politics when he ran for office and his actions since reflect on that ignorance big time!
quote:
I am not pleased to hear Harmon was more qualified and passed over. I will be writing Pelosi about that and hope more will do the same. One letter isn't noticed but this kind of publicity is and letters help.
Excellent.
quote:
Did you miss the interview, Bill?
I guess. What interview are you referring to?
quote:
Bush didn't know who led India or Pakistan either and those two countries have had near misses declaring war over Kashmir and they both have nuclear weapons. You can say what you want about whether it matters or not but there is no doubt Bush knew almost nothing about world politics when he ran for office and his actions since reflect on that ignorance big time!
I won't argue your point. My point is that we should not give the dems a free pass because of this. Let's raise the bar on all our elected officials. You already seem to have. Good for you.
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"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 12/13/2006 : 06:39:20 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by moakley
quote:
Originally posted by Bill scott
quote:
Originally posted by moakley
quote:
Originally posted by Bill scott
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Rep. Silvestre Reyes of Texas, who incoming House Speaker Nancy Pelosi has tapped to head the Intelligence Committee when the Democrats take over in January, failed a quiz of basic questions about al Qaeda and Hezbollah, two of the key terrorist organizations the intelligence community has focused on since the September 11, 2001 attacks.
I suspect that he knows the basics now or that he will know by the time he heads the committee. Being an effective leader means relying on a staff of experts to fill in the gaps in his knowledge. Initially the gaps will be larger and through time and new situations the gaps will be larger. I suspect that through time the staff of experts will help fill those gaps. To be effective he must be willing to consider all summary information provided without regard to political ideology. What a refreshing change that would be.
With nukes involved, or soon to be involved, I would still perfer a IC leader who knows what teams are playing the game.
I'd prefer that the IC leader be bright, honest, and humble enough to recognize that he doesn't have all the answers. To rely upon the experts for information, to summarize and formalize plans, and to adapt when changing course is necessary. I do not want some fear mongering ideologue manipulating intelligence for some far fetched political agenda, who devoutly stays the course.
quote:
I'd prefer that the IC leader be bright, honest, and humble enough to recognize that he doesn't have all the answers.
I would prefer someone who has a base knowledge of their job, especially when national security is in the balance.
quote:
To rely upon the experts for information, to summarize and formalize plans, and to adapt when changing course is necessary. I do not want some fear mongering ideologue manipulating intelligence for some far fetched political agenda, who devoutly stays the course.
In other words, you want anybody but GWB, and your willing to give the dems a free pass simply because they are not GWB. Why when the dems already questionable behavior is pointed out do you, by default, revert back to GWB? Are you that bias?
Bill: Hey, Nancy is passing over more qualified candidates and putting a flunky in the IC leader position.
Moakly: Bill, do you realize that GWB is stubborn and won't listen to advisers?
Bill: But I am a little concerned that the right guy was chosen as al Quida has vowed to attack the US again.
Moakly: Bill, did you know that GWB can't even find Africa on a globe?
Bill: Oh good grief.
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"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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pleco
SFN Addict
USA
2998 Posts |
Posted - 12/13/2006 : 07:13:36 [Permalink]
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| Bill perhaps the problem here is that we haven't seen you critique Republicans with the same measuring stick. You post only about Democrats for some reason. |
by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart. |
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
Posted - 12/13/2006 : 08:06:14 [Permalink]
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| I cant believe you bums are making excuses for this crap. This is an international embarrasment and whether the Bush admin people are also ignorant has little to do with it. No way should this guy get the job, Condi Rices past has nothing to do with it. |
"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History
"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini |
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GeeMack
SFN Regular
USA
1093 Posts |
Posted - 12/13/2006 : 08:24:54 [Permalink]
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You'll probably find this difficult to understand, Bill, because you tend to think in terms of black and white, either/or. Just because so many people here criticize the current administration, and often Republicans in general, doesn't mean they have some kind of blind allegiance to the Democrats. George W. Bush and the team he surrounds himself with are proven fuck-ups. If some of us seem to be willing to give "anybody but GWB" a chance, it's because anybody-but is unlikely to be as bad as what we have now.
Apparently Silvestre Reyes doesn't already know everything about some of the particular intelligence issues at hand. Big deal. He also hasn't demonstrated a lack of ability or lack of willingness to learn. And the chairmanship of the House Intelligence Committee isn't a solo position. Any committee, by definition, relies on the combined knowledge, abilities, and resources of all its members. We don't yet know if Reyes will do a bad job as chairman. We know for a fact that the current administration has problems with intelligence, problems which have cost billions of dollars and thousands of American lives.
Maybe a good question for you to consider, Bill, is this: Would you rather have might-be-a-problem or absolutely-is-a-problem?
quote:
Originally posted by Bill scott...
Quit giving the dems a free pass just because their not GB.
[. . .]
Do not give the dems a free pass simply because they are not Bush is my message
[. . .]
Don't give the dems a free pass simply for not being pubs.
[. . .]
My point is that we should not give the dems a free pass because of this.
[. . .]
In other words, you want anybody but GWB, and your willing to give the dems a free pass simply because they are not GWB.
Keeping in mind that being supportive and/or giving one a chance isn't the same thing as giving a free pass, demonstrate that anyone here has given the Democrats a free pass.
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moakley
SFN Regular
USA
1888 Posts |
Posted - 12/13/2006 : 11:46:18 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Bill scott
quote:
Originally posted by moakley
I'd prefer that the IC leader be bright, honest, and humble enough to recognize that he doesn't have all the answers.
I would prefer someone who has a base knowledge of their job, especially when national security is in the balance.
quote:
To rely upon the experts for information, to summarize and formalize plans, and to adapt when changing course is necessary. I do not want some fear mongering ideologue manipulating intelligence for some far fetched political agenda, who devoutly stays the course.
In other words, you want anybody but GWB, and your willing to give the dems a free pass simply because they are not GWB. Why when the dems already questionable behavior is pointed out do you, by default, revert back to GWB? Are you that bias?
Bill: Hey, Nancy is passing over more qualified candidates and putting a flunky in the IC leader position.
Moakly: Bill, do you realize that GWB is stubborn and won't listen to advisers?
Bill: But I am a little concerned that the right guy was chosen as al Quida has vowed to attack the US again.
Moakly: Bill, did you know that GWB can't even find Africa on a globe?
Bill: Oh good grief.
I spelled out my criteria of what I would expect from an effective leader, and what I would reject. GWB's lack of knowledge when elected in 2000 has been discussed without refutation on your part. And I did not mention GWB. If you consider fear mongering ideologue to be a fair representation of GWB or members of his staff, then so be it.
One thing that I request is that you not put words into my mouth. I am better suited to that task and clearly more eloquent than you. So your good grief is your own doing. |
Life is good
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous |
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Original_Intent
SFN Regular
USA
609 Posts |
Posted - 12/13/2006 : 12:19:28 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal
quote:
Originally posted by Original_Intent
LOL
I wonder if they gave the test to everyone, and how many of them would flunk (current administration and incoming).
Peace
Joe
All of them according to Laura Flanders who was talking about this on Air America this AM. Apparently they have been quizzed.
God... I can't decide if I want to know the results or not....
Peace
Joe |
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 12/13/2006 : 12:19:52 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by pleco
Bill perhaps the problem here is that we haven't seen you critique Republicans with the same measuring stick. You post only about Democrats for some reason.
http://www.skepticfriends.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=7121 |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 12/13/2006 : 12:59:23 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by GeeMack
quote:
You'll probably find this difficult to understand, Bill, because you tend to think in terms of black and white, either/or. Just because so many people here criticize the current administration, and often Republicans in general, doesn't mean they have some kind of blind allegiance to the Democrats.
I know, it just appears that way.
quote:
George W. Bush and the team he surrounds himself with are proven fuck-ups. If some of us seem to be willing to give "anybody but GWB" a chance, it's because anybody-but is unlikely to be as bad as what we have now.
Why settle for an IC flunky when others, with more knowledge, could have been chosen? This has nothing to do with GWB no matter how bad you want it to be.
quote:
Apparently Silvestre Reyes doesn't already know everything about some of the particular intelligence issues at hand. Big deal.
So why was he chosen when others did?
quote:
He also hasn't demonstrated a lack of ability or lack of willingness to learn.
Apparently he did if he flunked the basic quiz on IC topics.
quote:
And the chairmanship of the House Intelligence Committee isn't a solo position. Any committee, by definition, relies on the combined knowledge, abilities, and resources of all its members. We don't yet know if Reyes will do a bad job as chairman. We know for a fact that the current administration has problems with intelligence, problems which have cost billions of dollars and thousands of American lives.
Why wait and see? Let's hold our government to a higher standard now. There were more qualified candidates who were passed over.
quote:
Maybe a good question for you to consider, Bill, is this: Would you rather have might-be-a-problem or absolutely-is-a-problem?
I would rather see a guy who knows the job get the job.
quote:
Keeping in mind that being supportive and/or giving one a chance isn't the same thing as giving a free pass, demonstrate that anyone here has given the Democrats a free pass.
You have. The topic is how Nancy passes over more qualified candidates, for of all things the IC leader, and you continue to rant on about GWB.
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"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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