|
|
|
Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
 Posted - 01/12/2007 : 01:01:37 [Permalink]
|
quote:
I knew I was wasting my time, Dude.
Just concede that there is no such thing as "universal cuteness" and move on.
When you speak in those absolute terms it just makes you look foolish.
|
Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
|
 |
|
|
filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 01/12/2007 : 05:08:11 [Permalink]
|
"Cute" is as cute does.... It's all in the eye of the beholder.
|
"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
|
|
|
|
marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 01/12/2007 : 23:59:45 [Permalink]
|
Dude wrote: quote:
"cuteness" is a function of culture, and is entirely subjective."
(my emphasis added in italics)
And Dude also wrote: quote:
When you speak in those absolute terms it just makes you look foolish.
Ah, the irony. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
|
|
|
|
marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 01/13/2007 : 00:11:15 [Permalink]
|
Dude wrote: quote:
When you use, repeatedly, terms like "universal" and "all", after being questioned on them, then what other meaning can you be giving them except an absolute one?
beskeptical answers your question quite clearly here: quote:
Humans have a universal reflex to smile when happy. Does that mean there are no exceptions? Of course not. People can have paralyzed facial muscles. Universal in this context refers to something across cultures but it doesn't mean absolutely without exception.
So I was correct in my interpretation of what she originally wrote on this topic. It is you who is misunderstanding her.
Dude wrote: quote:
No, it isn't bullshit. There is no such thing as objective "cuteness".
You are switching gears here. You wrote that cuteness was “entirely subjective”. That is obviously false. It's like saying that deliciousness is entirely subjective. Human tastebuds have evolved to have a general palette. This palette includes finding salty and sweet things tastey, and many other things yucky. Of course there is a wide diversity of preferences within the general scope, but the general scope still firmly exists and has a genetic basis. The same is true of cuteness, and beauty for that matter. While cultural and individual preferences have huge influence and vary widely, certain traits of considered cute in all cultures and seem to have a genetic basis – such as large heads and eyes, and in the case of beauty, smooth skin. No, it is not totally objective. But it is also not “entirely subjective” as you put it.
quote:
What other reason could you have for jumping in here without reading the thread?
I read every word of the thread before responding. I simply interpreted what beskeptical and Half wrote differently from you (and at least in the case of beskeptical, I interpreted her intention correctly, while you misunderstood her.) Now you are making a false assumption that I must have not read the thread, despite the fact that I've already explained my interpretation of her use of “universal” and “all”. Sort of grasping at this point, aren't you?
|
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
|
|
|
|
marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 01/13/2007 : 00:12:58 [Permalink]
|
filthy wrote: quote:
"Cute" is as cute does.... It's all in the eye of the beholder.
Way to totally ignore the context in which the word "cuteness" has been used in this thread thus far. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
|
|
|
|
Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 01/13/2007 : 00:24:42 [Permalink]
|
marfknox said:
quote:
So I was correct in my interpretation of what she originally wrote on this topic. It is you who is misunderstanding her.
Well, you are wrong on both counts, but that isn't anything unusual.
|
Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
|
|
|
|
Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 01/13/2007 : 01:40:06 [Permalink]
|
Damn. Things were going so well. We went from animals licking themselves all the way to eating the sexy, but now we're back to the mundane menage a trois of terror: Dude, beskeptigal and marfknox engaged in what appears to be almost entirely an argument over whether absolutes really are absolutes in common usage. Someone pass me the popcorn and the lubricant (though not necessarily in that order).
Are any of the three of you wearing leather? I like leather.
(Hey, it'd be really ironic if the leather is deerskin or rabbit fur, wouldn't it?) |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
|
|
|
filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 01/13/2007 : 02:19:39 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by marfknox
filthy wrote: quote:
"Cute" is as cute does.... It's all in the eye of the beholder.
Way to totally ignore the context in which the word "cuteness" has been used in this thread thus far.
True, but am I wrong?
|
"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
|
|
|
|
HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 01/13/2007 : 02:39:23 [Permalink]
|
Well, I'm cute, and that's objective fact. I looked.
|
“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
|
|
|
marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 01/13/2007 : 08:20:39 [Permalink]
|
filthy wrote: quote:
True, but am I wrong?
No, you aren't wrong. I think I was just annoyed (which is totally my own problem) with the wise guy jumping in and saying something extremely vague yet true for contemplation. Sorry. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
|
|
|
|
marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 01/13/2007 : 08:23:17 [Permalink]
|
Dude wrote: quote:
Well, you are wrong on both counts, but that isn't anything unusual.
Halt! Dude has spoken and, surprise surprise, the verdict is that Marf is wrong. Why is she wrong, you ask? Do not question the wisdom of Dude! |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
|
| Edited by - marfknox on 01/13/2007 08:23:56 |
|
|
|
marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 01/13/2007 : 08:30:46 [Permalink]
|
Dave wrote: quote:
Dude, beskeptigal and marfknox engaged in what appears to be almost entirely an argument over whether absolutes really are absolutes in common usage.
Hit the nail on the head there, Dave and in quite the colorful manner! So here's my final opinion on that matter: sometimes absolutes really are absolutes in common usage, and sometimes they are not. It is all depends on context. In this context, it would have been foolish for be to intend a pure absolute, and since I know her to not be a fool when it comes to biology, I figured she meant it in the way more like the whole smile reflex example. Dude interpreted it as a pure absolute and then proceeded to ignore all other aspects of the debate and only attack that (since he knows he can win that argument.) I called him on it, clearly explained how he misinterpreted her, yet he insists that I'm wrong. Not sure what grounds he insists this on since he didn't give a reason.
I doubt this is going to go any further because, much like my father, Dude is incapable of ever admitting that he was wrong about something.
quote:
Are any of the three of you wearing leather? I like leather.
Alas, an oversized orange sweater and my cotton jammies. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
|
| Edited by - marfknox on 01/13/2007 08:31:50 |
|
|
|
Neurosis
SFN Regular
USA
675 Posts |
Posted - 01/13/2007 : 13:56:15 [Permalink]
|
| Anyone interested should go here. The part about how the bird recognizes its mother is appropriete to this discussion. In fact, it all is as it concerns universals in nature and beauty. |
Facts! Pssh, you can prove anything even remotely true with facts.
- Homer Simpson
[God] is an infinite nothing from nowhere with less power over our universe than the secretary of agriculture.
- Prof. Frink
Lisa: Yes, but wouldn't you rather know the truth than to delude yourself for happiness?
Marge: Well... um.... [goes outside to jump on tampoline with Homer.] |
|
|
|
Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 01/13/2007 : 14:14:33 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Halt! Dude has spoken and, surprise surprise, the verdict is that Marf is wrong. Why is she wrong, you ask? Do not question the wisdom of Dude!
Correct!
|
Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
|
|
|
|
marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 01/13/2007 : 14:54:08 [Permalink]
|
| Neurosis, thank you so much for linking to that article! I absolutely loved reading it. In four years of undergrad and 2 years of grad school studying fine art, I was exposed to so much crappy pseudo-scientific bs in art criticism and aesthetics. The best stuff written about art was always stuff I discovered on my own, outside of the insanity of art-in-academia. My favorite writer on art is Herbert Read, and in his book "To Hell With Culture" I first read about C.P. Snow's two cultures. I became totally fascinated with the hope of bridging the gap between scientific and intellectual culture. This article was truly exciting and I'm forwarding it to all my artist friends. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
|
| Edited by - marfknox on 01/13/2007 15:07:15 |
|
|
 |
|
Topic Locked
