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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
 Posted - 01/21/2007 : 00:47:37 [Permalink]
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Ouch, Dave!
The latest Acme Corporation product, made of equal parts lying, ignorance, and distortion (the Fibigtortion™ Device) has failed Wile E. God-boy yet again. He was aflame all the way down to the canyon's bottom, impacting with a small puff of dust and ash. In other words, the experience has improved him.
I'm sure he's not finished, but we've got more fish.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 01/21/2007 01:10:46 |
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Neurosis
SFN Regular
USA
675 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2007 : 03:37:46 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by GK Paul
It appears that there are actually several different churches of Secular Humanism (one was founded by Frank Zappa and another by Gerald Baker).
Also the US Court of Appeals held that Secular Humanism is a non-theistic religion within the meaning of the first admendment.
http://www.experiencefestival.com/a/Secular_humanism/id/1896986
From the cited article:
"In a mockery of Hugo Black's reference to secular humanism as a religion, musician and free speech advocate Frank Zappa established the "Church of Secular Humanism.""
In a mockery GK, In a mockery!!!! |
Facts! Pssh, you can prove anything even remotely true with facts.
- Homer Simpson
[God] is an infinite nothing from nowhere with less power over our universe than the secretary of agriculture.
- Prof. Frink
Lisa: Yes, but wouldn't you rather know the truth than to delude yourself for happiness?
Marge: Well... um.... [goes outside to jump on tampoline with Homer.] |
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Neurosis
SFN Regular
USA
675 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2007 : 03:56:12 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Orwellingly Yurz
Although I'm hard-pressed to have a definitive conclusion, I do think that humans need, in some cases, a spiritual component to their existence, whatever "spiritual" is. If it gets them through what it is needed to be gotten through, that's pretty cool.
Since spiritual means pertaining to religion, rituals, the church, or just the soul. I disagree. But if we were to redefine the term in a more colloquial usage and mean simply, a mystical side or wonder, I still disagree. Only by the definition 'pertaining to the pathos'. Then I agree, but only provisionally. Usually people just mean deepness or essence of someone/something, which is of course very important and for some, rooted in their religion.
Also, we could extend religion to include philosophy worldview but that removes the purpose of the word.
quote:
"The evil that is in the world always comes of ignorance, and good intentions may do as much harm as malevolence, if they lack understanding. On the whole men are more good than bad; that, however, isn't the real point. But they are more or less ignorant, and it is this that we call vice or virtue; the most incorrigible vice being that of an ignorance which fancies it knows everything and therefore claims for itself the right to kill. There can be no true goodness, nor true love, without the utmost clear-sightedness."--Camus
Jesus would, undoubtedly, concur.
OY!
I doubt it for two reasons.
One, if jesus was a real person with godlike gifts, or he was god, and/or had the powers the NT describes, he did not give us any new information. He did not add to our knowledge. He only told us what we have known for thousands of years prior, the golden rule. Most of the other teachings are either faulty or only applicable to a christian spiritual view (how to get to heaven).
Second, if man's greatest fault is ignorance then the mystery of Christ is about the worst plan to date. Confuse the easily confused? Then of all things punish eternally all those who are ignorant of the proper way to get to heaven, not to mention that ignorance of right and wrong means a punishment is unjust. We cannot punish someone for an action we have not told them was wrong in the first place. Could we punish a child for failing to understand what is not their nature to understand?
Jesus said alot of good things (and some bad) but it wasn't new and enlightening. |
Facts! Pssh, you can prove anything even remotely true with facts.
- Homer Simpson
[God] is an infinite nothing from nowhere with less power over our universe than the secretary of agriculture.
- Prof. Frink
Lisa: Yes, but wouldn't you rather know the truth than to delude yourself for happiness?
Marge: Well... um.... [goes outside to jump on tampoline with Homer.] |
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R.Wreck
SFN Regular
USA
1191 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2007 : 10:43:35 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.:
Barry Lynn... Response A. {A single individual, not an organization}
Just to clarify: Barry W. Lynn, executive director of Americans United for Separation of Church and State, so I would take whatever he said to be on behalf of the organization.
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The foundation of morality is to . . . give up pretending to believe that for which there is no evidence, and repeating unintelligible propositions about things beyond the possibliities of knowledge.
T. H. Huxley
The Cattle Prod of Enlightened Compassion
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Neurosis
SFN Regular
USA
675 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2007 : 14:12:08 [Permalink]
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I just thought I would take a moment to point out the intellectual honesty among most of our members here. Rather than simply allow a posts information to slide without criticism, members, even those with opinions supported by the false information, correct the misinformation when they are able. Dave will no doubt recognize the post of R.Wreck and either, clarify, adjust his argument, or correct the inaccuracy, without feeling slighted or making a fuss. Dave will be happy to have more information where his research had not yet reached or he had been wrong. He certainly will not continue to post the erroneous or suspect information without addressing the contradicting post. It is good that there are people who realize that being corrected in an area is not a bad thing, it is not a pride issue. Instead, it is a matter of accuracy and pride should be taken in that accuracy. Perhaps Dave agrees with me when I say that false pride is the same as true ignorance. Some members (GK) should take a lesson here in admitting faults and striving for truth and accuracy, rather than simply bull-heading a position and continuing to tighten the noose around his neck for fear that his executioner might see in him a sign of weakness and hang him.
Edited for grammar |
Facts! Pssh, you can prove anything even remotely true with facts.
- Homer Simpson
[God] is an infinite nothing from nowhere with less power over our universe than the secretary of agriculture.
- Prof. Frink
Lisa: Yes, but wouldn't you rather know the truth than to delude yourself for happiness?
Marge: Well... um.... [goes outside to jump on tampoline with Homer.] |
| Edited by - Neurosis on 01/21/2007 14:13:54 |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2007 : 14:16:08 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by R.Wreck
Just to clarify: Barry W. Lynn, executive director of Americans United for Separation of Church and State, so I would take whatever he said to be on behalf of the organization.
I wouldn't, since there are plenty of examples of executives speaking out on their own and then getting canned or censured by their own organizations for the appearance of speaking for the whole group.
The people who put together the page including Lynn make no indication that he's speaking for the group, and they have no qualms in identifying entire groups, but singled out Lynn themselves. For another example, the two entries before Lynn in that list are "The ACLU of Tennessee" and then "ACLU Executive Director Jack Van Valkenburgh." So the authors themselves appear to mean Lynn as an individual. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2007 : 21:02:56 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Neurosis
Perhaps Dave agrees with me when I say that false pride is the same as true ignorance.
Whether it's due to pride or fear or whatever, I consider one of the worst possible traits in a person to be willful ignorance. The "nothing you could possibly say could convince me that I'm wrong" sort of ignorance. The kind of ignorance that would prompt a person to say, in response to some factual point or other, "well, that's just your opinion."
While here in an Internet forum, that sort of ignorance is simply and obviously pathetic, when it shows up in a parachutist, spelunker, scuba diver, mountain climber, pilot, NASCAR driver or barroom bully (not an all-inclusive list), it can turn deadly to one or more people (and not necessarily to the willfully ignorant person).
But there's no reason to think that those who express their willful ignorance here on the SFN aren't also willfully ignorant on matters of life-and-death that they actually encounter. To suggest otherwise is, of course, to claim that everyone who acts as a know-it-all ignoramus on the Web instead is meek and thoughtful in real life, and there are too many public counterexamples to take such a claim seriously (Bill Dembski, Kent Hovind, etc.).
So when I first encounter a willfully ignorant person somewhere on the Internet, it tells me that my life is a tiny bit less safe, for real. It is physically threatening to me that someone like GK Paul might one day be piloting the flight I'm taking coast-to-coast for business. Or even worse, in three years or so, after an early celebration of his 21st birthday at (for whatever reason) the Italian place up the street from my home, maybe he'll say to himself something willfully ignorant like, "I've only had six beers, I can still drive," and then hop the curb in my neighborhood and take out some kid, perhaps my own.
These may sound insanely hypoerbolic, but the fact is that there's no social benefit whatsoever for willful ignorance, so any risk at all - no matter how small, if it's not zero - is too much risk. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2007 : 08:04:52 [Permalink]
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Over the last, few days, I've been looking for something -- anything -- that would refute the OP. I mean, it's stupid, even by religious fundie standards. It's like something out of The Onion. Sadly, I haven't found anything, which doesn't mean it's not out there, just that I don't know about it.
To us in the West, this screwing around with the alphabet seems pretty far out, but there is no seperation of church and state in Saudi Arabia. Indeed, for all practical purposes, the church is the state, and there's no ACLU to be found. The muslim madmen can do almost idiotic thing they wish with impunity.
I wonder; might much of the rabid Christian's problems with our secular government stem from envy of their Islamic cousins?
Has anyone else been looking for something that might call bullshit on the Sun article?
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2007 : 08:42:32 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by filthy
Has anyone else been looking for something that might call bullshit on the Sun article?
The fact that the original story is three years old and the Sun article was written by a guy known to have written bullshit about Saudi religious laws in the past wasn't enough for you? |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2007 : 12:56:46 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
quote:
Originally posted by filthy
Has anyone else been looking for something that might call bullshit on the Sun article?
The fact that the original story is three years old and the Sun article was written by a guy known to have written bullshit about Saudi religious laws in the past wasn't enough for you?
Didn't catch that part of it -- the story's dated Jan. 2007 and I am not familiar with Mr. Ibrahim's work -- but, well, not really.
Reputation is certainly something to take into consideration, but a look at the evidence is the determining factor. If the story is bullshit, then one would think that someone would call him on it. The story's made the rounds on the 'net and by now is pretty much in the public domain. By now, I would think, someone knowledgeable would have come forth.
It's a nothing story, as most fundie stories are, but it piques the Curse of the Skeptic: curiosity.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2007 : 14:24:39 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by filthy
Didn't catch that part of it...
It was in my first post to this thread.quote:
Reputation is certainly something to take into consideration, but a look at the evidence is the determining factor. If the story is bullshit, then one would think that someone would call him on it. The story's made the rounds on the 'net and by now is pretty much in the public domain. By now, I would think, someone knowledgeable would have come forth.
The folks at Hot Air seem to have done so. And the problem with this sort of story is that the only positive "debunking" to be done to it is if the authorities involved actually put out an official statement saying something to the effect of "we did not deny his application due to the letter X in the name." Short of that, it'll all be speculative to some extent or other. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2007 : 15:35:46 [Permalink]
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quote:
Those Who Guard Our Morals From Hidden Dangers
Amr Mohammed Al-Faisal
Some time ago we tried to register the product of a company of mine. We wanted to trademark the name of the product to protect it from piracy.
After more than a year the Ministry of Commerce sent us a letter which stated that a year before — this shows the dynamism of the ministry — the Commission for the Promotion of Virtue and the Prevention of Vice had objected to the brand name and therefore the ministry refused to register it.
You see, the name of the product is Explorer, which is a direct translation of the Arabic name. The learned scholars of the commission rightly noted that the letter X in the name was a cross, and this aroused their delicate Islamic sensibilities and they banned the registration.
I am greatly relieved that thanks to the vigilance of the commission a great tragedy was avoided. Until then I had innocently and, I must admit, naively assumed that the letter X was just that, a letter of the alphabet, not as it turns out a cunning and dastardly plot by Christians to corrupt our Muslim faith.
So, actually it did happen, but was no big deal; no official changes to the alphabet. And some time later, the Sun was having a slow news day. Ok, I see it now.
Truth is that I haven't been opening links as I usually do. Got some other things going and can't devote as much time to SFN as I'd like. Trying to get a house a little bigger than a Unibomber Shack livable so I can get the hell out of here. Among some other stuff.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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moakley
SFN Regular
USA
1888 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2007 : 06:07:14 [Permalink]
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I was just over at PT and someone made mention of Poe's Law.
quote:
No matter how bizzare, outrageous, or just plain idiotic a parody of a Fundamentalist may seem, there will always be someone who cannot tell that it is a parody, having seen similar REAL ideas from real religious/political Fundamentalists.
edited to add: Maybe Poe's Law is a parody as well.  |
Life is good
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous |
| Edited by - moakley on 01/23/2007 06:09:23 |
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