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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 02/11/2002 : 16:18:53
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I'd love to see the whole profession go down in flames. I'm sad to say that I have a couple of friends who regularly visit Chiropractors. Why, I don't know.
Canada, a more advanced country than our's, it seems, is beginning to point out the real hazards on getting your neck yanked along with your wallet.
http://www.nationalpost.com/home/story.html?f=/stories/20020207/1363170.html
I've been told that chiropractors are trying to get into the VA Hospital system as primary care providers. Does anyone know the truth of this?
f
"They will take away my Darwin Fish only when they pry it from my cold, dead bumper!"
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James
SFN Regular
USA
754 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2002 : 20:08:19 [Permalink]
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quote:
I'm sad to say that I have a couple of friends who regularly visit Chiropractors. Why, I don't know.
Maybe they have back problems? So does my Dad, but his chiropractor is a childhood friend of his, and the guy is very good.
quote:
I've been told that chiropractors are trying to get into the VA Hospital system as primary care providers. Does anyone know the truth of this?
I don't know, myself. But, the next time I talk with my Dad, who is a vet, I will talk with him about it.
"Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your common sense." -Buddha |
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Lars_H
SFN Regular
Germany
630 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2002 : 07:38:24 [Permalink]
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I am not sold on this danger of chiropracy thing. Whenver people presnt statistics such as patients who "suffered a stroke within 24 hours of neck manipulation by a chiropractor"
I get a bit sceptical. A lot of people go to the chiropractor and a lot of people have strokes. Just because there is a plausible theory of how neck-manipulations could cause strokes does not mean that there actualy is a large number of people whose stroke was caused by neck-mainpulations.
Testimonials or single examples of where something happend don't mean anything more when they are used against quackmedicie then when they are used in favor of such nonsens.
Do I belive that all kinds of ilnesses and disease are caused by misalign backbones? No! Of course not.
Do I belive that people could die as a result of chiropractic treatment. Yes. Everything that actually does something (as opposed to stuff like homeopathywich does nothing) runs the risk of having negative consequences even including death.
Do I belive that the danger in this case is very high? Isufficient data at this point I would say. They will need more then they have now to accomplish anything. Espessically if you consider the mass of supporters and the amount of money made with this.
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2002 : 08:06:25 [Permalink]
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If there were a reason to manipulate necks, then it would be different. The risk of stroke far outweighs the benefits of neck manipulation.
See http://www.chirowatch.com
Not everything that chiros do is quackery. Physical manipulation has been shown to be helpful for some problems. The big problem is that there is no science involved. Chiropractic was founded on the ridiculous theory of subluxation. Chiropractors try to cure ear infections in children and all sorts of things.
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I am not sold on this danger of chiropracy thing.
"Not one human life should be expended in this reckless violence called a war against terrorism." - Howard Zinn
Edited by - gorgo on 02/12/2002 08:07:10 |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2002 : 08:46:17 [Permalink]
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Perhaps, because I have a couple of MDs in the family, I've become a bit opinionated. But I see little theraputic benefit in chiropratic that could not be gotten from a good massuse (sp?). And with a lot less wear & tear on the bank account.
I also have had 2 spinal fusions. Anyone messing with spines that is not highly qualified to do so, scares hell out of me. Comes to that, the real Docs make me a little nervous.
I think that chiropratic is quackery at it's best because it is so widly accepted.
f
"They will take away my Darwin Fish only when they pry it from my cold, dead bumper!" |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2002 : 08:51:46 [Permalink]
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"VA has been providing chiropractic care since December, 1999."
Damn! Didn't know that and I've been a semi regular at the VA since the mid '70s (disabled vet).
Thanks, VD
f
"They will take away my Darwin Fish only when they pry it from my cold, dead bumper!" |
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Tokyodreamer
SFN Regular
USA
1447 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2002 : 09:42:59 [Permalink]
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I thought this was funny, from a call to Dr. Dean Edell:
quote:
Dr. Dean: Here is where I'll get some chiropractors angry and others not, and I have many chiropractor friends who agree with me right on down the line about this. There really is no such thing as your spine being out of alignment.
We've taken spines out of dead people, put them on drill presses and tried to misalign vertebrae and you really can't. It's a 100-year-old theory that diseases are caused by subluxations.
I'm with filthy; get a masseuse, not a quack!
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Sum Ergo Cogito |
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The Rat
SFN Regular
Canada
1370 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2002 : 21:39:46 [Permalink]
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I live less than an hour from Port Perry, Ontario, the hometown of Daniel David Palmer, founder of chiropractic. Pleasant little town. The restaurants are typically 'small town quaint', the fishing is great, and the birding is good too.
Unfortunately they have this bust of Palmer prominently displayed in a park that bears his name. Detracts from the whole experience...
Free speech; excercise it or SHUT UP! |
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ronnywhite
SFN Regular
501 Posts |
Posted - 03/12/2002 : 22:21:48 [Permalink]
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quote:
It's a 100-year-old theory that diseases are caused by subluxations.
The bit about trying to misallign them is funny. My 2 cents of input was lost in the database problem, so I'll re-enter it, roughly, and a few thoughts on the alternative medicine stuff in general...
I consider chiropractors to offer an expensive massage with a little added power of suggestion, and it's not surprising that the combination's effective for some people. If hot baths weren't so readily available, and were administered by pseudoprofessionals who exaggerated their benefits (at considerable expense, maybe including "medicinal oils," etc.) their efficacy as a treatment for an assortment of maladies would likely be inflated to legendary proportions, as well. Nonetheless, I think chiropractic does help some people (with muscle, joint, and back pain.) A causative relationship with strokes appears to be mere speculation at this point, and it's reasonable to assume that chiropractors are acutely aware of the risks of injuring patients (particularly the legal risks to their business) and practice accordingly. The theoretical basis of their profession is ridiculous (and I doubt many chiropractors actually believe it) but if one turns a blind eye to this- and considers what they actually do, and what the results are- they're probably the most legitimate of the "alternative therapies." I can't think of many other "alternative therapies" that aren't outright quackery in practice, as well as theory. Homeopathy was mentioned, for instance- it's theoretical basis is absurd, and it's history reeks of quackery… homeopaths might just as well paint themselves blue and shake a rattle. There seems to be some evidence that vitamin/herbal therapy (e.g. vitamin c, zinc, St. John's Wort) and acupuncture sometimes have a degree of effectiveness, but the quackery comes into play when practitioners, ala P.T. Barnum, vastly exaggerate how effective these therapies are, and what they can treat. Interesting comment by a former head of the AMA- roughly quoted- "We need a certain amount of vitamins in our diet to maintain health. They act as nutrients. When this dosage is exceeded, they are no longer acting only as nutrients- whatever other effects they have, they are then acting as drugs. Above their nutritional dosages, we don't know what the drug effects of these chemicals are, if any." Sounds sensible to me.
Ron White |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
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ronnywhite
SFN Regular
501 Posts |
Posted - 03/13/2002 : 16:06:47 [Permalink]
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Thanks for the link... surprising to me the issue of strokes hadn't emerged at an earlier date. Haven't gone to a chiropractor, and that doesn't change my plans. So much for my "Ah, they're kinda' weird, but they seem benign enough" stuff.
Ron White |
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